Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?

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Sujet : Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?
De : mikko.levanto (at) *nospam* iki.fi (Mikko)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 19. Jul 2024, 10:14:16
Autres entêtes
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Message-ID : <v7dap8$2u0p5$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
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On 2024-07-18 14:18:51 +0000, olcott said:

On 7/18/2024 3:41 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
Op 17.jul.2024 om 16:56 schreef olcott:
On 7/17/2024 9:32 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
Op 17.jul.2024 om 16:20 schreef olcott:
On 7/17/2024 8:54 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
Op 17.jul.2024 om 15:27 schreef olcott:
 HHH is not allowed to report on the behavior of it actual self
in its own directly executed process. HHH is allowed to report on
the effect of the behavior of the simulation of itself simulating DDD.
 
 But only on the effect of a correct simulation.
 _DDD()
[00002163] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002164] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
[00002166] 6863210000 push 00002163 ; push DDD
[0000216b] e853f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DDD)
[00002170] 83c404     add esp,+04
[00002173] 5d         pop ebp
[00002174] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [00002174]
 *THIS IS SELF EVIDENT THUS DISAGREEMENT IS INCORRECT*
DDD emulated by any pure function HHH according to the
semantic meaning of its x86 instructions never stops
running unless aborted.
 
 It is self evident that a program that aborts will halt.
The semantics of the x86 code of a halting program is also self-evident: it halts.
So, the aborting HHH, when simulated correctly, stops.
Dreaming of a HHH that does not abort is irrelevant.
 
 That is all the dishonest dodge of the strawman deception.
HHH is required to halt by its design spec.
 _DDD()
[00002163] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002164] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
[00002166] 6863210000 push 00002163 ; push DDD
[0000216b] e853f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DDD)
[00002170] 83c404     add esp,+04
[00002173] 5d         pop ebp
[00002174] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [00002174]
 *THIS IS SELF EVIDENT THUS DISAGREEMENT IS INCORRECT*
DDD emulated by any pure function HHH according to the
semantic meaning of its x86 instructions never stops
running unless aborted.
 
 Dreaming of a HHH that does not halt, when we are talking about a HHH that aborts and halts is irrelevant. Therefore, the 'unless aborted' is irrelevant. The semantics of the x86 instructions are self-evident: HHH halts.
 When you are hungry you remain hungry until you eat.
   Before HHH(DDD) aborts its emulation the directly
   executed DDD() cannot possibly halt.
 After you eat you are no longer hungry.
   After HHH(DDD) aborts its emulation the directly
   executed DDD() halts.
If DDD does not halt it indicates that HHH is faulty. Therefore the
interesting question is whether DDD halts, not when DDD halts.
--
Mikko

Date Sujet#  Auteur
13 Jul 24 * Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?172olcott
13 Jul 24 +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
14 Jul 24 `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?170Mikko
14 Jul 24  `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?169olcott
14 Jul 24   +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?154Richard Damon
15 Jul 24   i`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?153olcott
15 Jul 24   i `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?152Richard Damon
15 Jul 24   i  `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?151olcott
15 Jul 24   i   `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?150Richard Damon
15 Jul 24   i    `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?149olcott
15 Jul 24   i     `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?148Richard Damon
15 Jul 24   i      +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?111olcott
15 Jul 24   i      i+* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?4Richard Damon
15 Jul 24   i      ii`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?3olcott
15 Jul 24   i      ii +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Fred. Zwarts
16 Jul 24   i      ii `- OLCOTT ADMITS TO LYING1Richard Damon
15 Jul 24   i      i+* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?48Fred. Zwarts
15 Jul 24   i      ii`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?47olcott
16 Jul 24   i      ii +- OLCOTT ADMITS TO LYING FOR YEARS1Richard Damon
16 Jul 24   i      ii +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?40olcott
16 Jul 24   i      ii i`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?39Richard Damon
16 Jul 24   i      ii i `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?38olcott
16 Jul 24   i      ii i  +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1joes
17 Jul 24   i      ii i  +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
17 Jul 24   i      ii i  `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?35Mikko
17 Jul 24   i      ii i   `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?34olcott
18 Jul 24   i      ii i    +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
19 Jul 24   i      ii i    `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?32Mikko
19 Jul 24   i      ii i     `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine31olcott
19 Jul 24   i      ii i      +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Richard Damon
19 Jul 24   i      ii i      +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine9joes
19 Jul 24   i      ii i      i`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine8olcott
19 Jul 24   i      ii i      i +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Richard Damon
20 Jul 24   i      ii i      i `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine6André G. Isaak
20 Jul 24   i      ii i      i  `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine5olcott
20 Jul 24   i      ii i      i   +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Richard Damon
20 Jul 24   i      ii i      i   `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine3André G. Isaak
20 Jul 24   i      ii i      i    `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine2olcott
20 Jul 24   i      ii i      i     `- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Richard Damon
20 Jul 24   i      ii i      `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine20Mikko
20 Jul 24   i      ii i       `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine19olcott
20 Jul 24   i      ii i        +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Richard Damon
20 Jul 24   i      ii i        +* Re: Self-Modifying Turing Machine3joes
20 Jul 24   i      ii i        i`* Re: Self-Modifying Turing Machine2olcott
20 Jul 24   i      ii i        i `- Re: Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Richard Damon
21 Jul 24   i      ii i        `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine14Mikko
21 Jul 24   i      ii i         `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine13olcott
21 Jul 24   i      ii i          +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Richard Damon
21 Jul 24   i      ii i          +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine2joes
21 Jul 24   i      ii i          i`- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Richard Damon
22 Jul 24   i      ii i          `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine9Mikko
22 Jul 24   i      ii i           `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine8olcott
23 Jul 24   i      ii i            `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine7Mikko
23 Jul 24   i      ii i             `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine6olcott
24 Jul 24   i      ii i              +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Richard Damon
25 Jul 24   i      ii i              `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine4Mikko
25 Jul 24   i      ii i               `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine3olcott
26 Jul 24   i      ii i                +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Richard Damon
26 Jul 24   i      ii i                `- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine1Mikko
16 Jul 24   i      ii `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?5Fred. Zwarts
16 Jul 24   i      ii  +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
16 Jul 24   i      ii  `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?3olcott
16 Jul 24   i      ii   +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Fred. Zwarts
17 Jul 24   i      ii   `- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
16 Jul 24   i      i`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?58Mikko
16 Jul 24   i      i `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?57olcott
17 Jul 24   i      i  +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
17 Jul 24   i      i  `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?55Mikko
17 Jul 24   i      i   `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?54olcott
17 Jul 24   i      i    +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?26Fred. Zwarts
17 Jul 24   i      i    i`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?25olcott
17 Jul 24   i      i    i +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?23Fred. Zwarts
17 Jul 24   i      i    i i`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?22olcott
17 Jul 24   i      i    i i +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1joes
18 Jul 24   i      i    i i +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
18 Jul 24   i      i    i i `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?19Fred. Zwarts
18 Jul 24   i      i    i i  `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?18olcott
19 Jul 24   i      i    i i   +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?7Fred. Zwarts
19 Jul 24   i      i    i i   i`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?6olcott
19 Jul 24   i      i    i i   i +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i   i `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?4Fred. Zwarts
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i   i  `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?3olcott
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i   i   +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i   i   `- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Fred. Zwarts
19 Jul 24   i      i    i i   `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?10Mikko
19 Jul 24   i      i    i i    `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?9olcott
19 Jul 24   i      i    i i     +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i     +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?4Fred. Zwarts
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i     i`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Honest Dialogue3olcott
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i     i +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Honest Dialogue1Richard Damon
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i     i `- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Honest Dialogue1Fred. Zwarts
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i     `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?3Mikko
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i      `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Honest Dialogue2olcott
20 Jul 24   i      i    i i       `- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Honest Dialogue1Fred. Zwarts
18 Jul 24   i      i    i `- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
17 Jul 24   i      i    +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?21joes
17 Jul 24   i      i    i`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?20olcott
17 Jul 24   i      i    i +* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?18joes
17 Jul 24   i      i    i i`* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?17olcott
18 Jul 24   i      i    i i `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?16joes
18 Jul 24   i      i    i i  `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?15olcott
18 Jul 24   i      i    i `- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
18 Jul 24   i      i    +- Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?1Richard Damon
19 Jul 24   i      i    `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?5Mikko
15 Jul 24   i      `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?36olcott
15 Jul 24   `* Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?14Mikko

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