Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine

On 2024-07-22 14:51:57 +0000, olcott said:

On 7/22/2024 3:26 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-07-21 13:58:56 +0000, olcott said:
 

On 7/21/2024 4:52 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-07-20 13:03:50 +0000, olcott said:
 

On 7/20/2024 4:01 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-07-19 14:18:05 +0000, olcott said:
 

When a Self-Modifying Turing Machine can change itself to become
any other Turing Machine then it can eliminate the pathological
relationship to its input.

 It never was a Turing machine.
 

 A self modifying TM is merely a TM description that is
simulated by a UTM and has access to itself on the UTM
tape.

 No, it is not.

 I invented it thus that is the specification of my invention.

 The term "Turing machine" is already reserved and your "invention"
is not one of the machines that are called "Turing macnines".
 Besides, you have not shown the "invention" so there is no
basis to claim that you have invented anything.
 

 A  Self-Modifying Turing Machine is merely a conventional Turing Machine
Description x that is being simulated by a conventional Universal Turing
Machine y such that x is provided access to itself on y's tape.
 

A TM description describes a TM that does not change itself.

 X is not typically understood to do Y therefore it is
impossible for X to do Y is incorrect reasoning.

 That is a different situation. If someting is not understood one can be
wrong about it. But even a very superficial understanding of Turing
machines suffices for determination that a machine that modifis itself
is not a Turing machine.
 

That you fail to understand that an emulated x86 program can
modify itself to change its own behavior as long as it knows
its own machine address is merely ignorance on your part.

 Your false claim about my understanding reveals that you are a liar.
Thank you, but we already knew.
 

 *Ad Hominem attacks are the first resort of clueless wonders*
 Anyone with sufficient software engineering skill can write a
C function that changes its own machine code while it is running.
That you say that I am lying about this is ridiculously stupid
on your part.
 

When a simulated Turing Machine Description is provided
access to itself on the UTM tape it can do the same thing.
Rigid minded people incorrectly conflate unconventional
for impossible.

 It is not a Turing machine desription if it describes a self-modification.
 

 WRONG!
 It is not [the conventional notion of] a Turing machine description if it describes a self-modification, [yet self-modification is by no means
impossible].

The input language of an UTM does not contain any expression that could
denote self-modification. In that sense self-modification is inpossible.
It you want to describe a self-modifying machine you need a different
description language. If you want to simulate a self-modifying machine
you need a simulator that can understand a description language for
descriptions of self-modifying machines.
If the self-modifying machine can be simulated by a Turing machine it
cannot compute anything a Turing machine cannot compute.
--
Mikko