Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace

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Sujet : Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace
De : F.Zwarts (at) *nospam* HetNet.nl (Fred. Zwarts)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 27. Jul 2024, 09:15:09
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <v82aae$39v6n$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
Op 26.jul.2024 om 22:14 schreef olcott:
On 7/26/2024 2:46 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
On 26/07/2024 16:56, olcott wrote:
This is meant for Mike, Joes and Fred don't have the technical competence to understand it.
>
Richard might be able to understand it yet the fact that he is
stuck in rebuttal mode makes any understanding that he may have
utterly useless.
>
Mike: It seems that HHH has been a pure function of its inputs
and never has provided data downward to its slaves that corrupts
their halt status decision. They don't even make a halt status
decision thus cannot make a corrupted one.
>
Well, the first two claims are literally untrue - outer HHH effectively uses the static mutable data to pass flags to the inner HHH that modify its behaviour.  The Root flag below is derived from the actual static data and causes inner HHH to totally skip its own abort logic!
>
You seem to acknowledge this, but claim it does not matter for various reasons, because whatever mistakes you are making, what finally gets printed out is saying the right thing!
>
 If HHH gets the correct answer in an impure way then it only
counts that it gets it in an impure way if it is impossible
to get in a pure way.
But the problem is that it gets the incorrect answer.
     if (!Root)
would be better, because then the simulator would indeed simulate an aborting and halting HHH and we would see that it gets the correct answer: halting.
But better is still wrong, because HHH s passing information to its simulated HHH, therefore, effectively it is simulating another HHH than *itself*.
You only prove that HHH cannot possibly simulate *itself* correctly.
In your example HHH is simulating another HHH.
You never proved that it is possible to get it in a pure way.
If it would be possible to do this in a pure way, then it would also possible to make an HHH that runs five cycles as Root and two cycles when not root, which would also get the correct answer.
In fact when such a construction is possible, it would be valid not only to skip a few lines when not Root, but also do completely different thing depending on root.
This al shows that you are completely off the road.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
26 Jul 24 * This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace112olcott
26 Jul 24 +* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace3joes
26 Jul 24 i`* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace2Mike Terry
26 Jul 24 i `- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1olcott
26 Jul 24 +* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace50Mike Terry
26 Jul 24 i`* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace49olcott
27 Jul 24 i +* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace4Mikko
27 Jul 24 i i`* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace3olcott
27 Jul 24 i i +- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Fred. Zwarts
28 Jul 24 i i `- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Richard Damon
27 Jul 24 i +- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Fred. Zwarts
27 Jul 24 i +* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace6Fred. Zwarts
27 Jul 24 i i`* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace5olcott
27 Jul 24 i i +- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Fred. Zwarts
27 Jul 24 i i +* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace2joes
27 Jul 24 i i i`- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1olcott
28 Jul 24 i i `- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Richard Damon
27 Jul 24 i `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace37Fred. Zwarts
27 Jul 24 i  `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace36olcott
27 Jul 24 i   +* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace31Fred. Zwarts
27 Jul 24 i   i`* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace30olcott
28 Jul 24 i   i +* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace5Fred. Zwarts
28 Jul 24 i   i i`* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace4olcott
28 Jul 24 i   i i +- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Richard Damon
28 Jul 24 i   i i +- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Fred. Zwarts
28 Jul 24 i   i i `- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1joes
28 Jul 24 i   i `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace24Mikko
29 Jul 24 i   i  `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace23olcott
29 Jul 24 i   i   +- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Fred. Zwarts
30 Jul 24 i   i   +- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Richard Damon
30 Jul 24 i   i   `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace20Mikko
31 Jul 24 i   i    `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace19olcott
31 Jul 24 i   i     +- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Richard Damon
31 Jul 24 i   i     `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace17Mikko
31 Jul 24 i   i      +* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace14olcott
1 Aug 24 i   i      i`* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace13Mikko
1 Aug 24 i   i      i `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace12olcott
1 Aug 24 i   i      i  +* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace10Fred. Zwarts
1 Aug 24 i   i      i  i`* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace9olcott
1 Aug 24 i   i      i  i +- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Fred. Zwarts
1 Aug 24 i   i      i  i `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace7joes
1 Aug 24 i   i      i  i  `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace6olcott
1 Aug 24 i   i      i  i   +* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace3Fred. Zwarts
1 Aug 24 i   i      i  i   i`* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace2olcott
2 Aug 24 i   i      i  i   i `- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Fred. Zwarts
1 Aug 24 i   i      i  i   `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace2joes
1 Aug 24 i   i      i  i    `- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1olcott
2 Aug 24 i   i      i  `- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Mikko
31 Jul 24 i   i      `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace2olcott
1 Aug 24 i   i       `- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Mikko
28 Jul 24 i   `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace4Mikko
29 Jul 24 i    `* HHH(Infinite_Recursion) and HHH(DDD) derive same non-halting execution trace3olcott
29 Jul 24 i     +- Re: HHH(Infinite_Recursion) and HHH(DDD) derive same non-halting execution trace1Fred. Zwarts
30 Jul 24 i     `- Re: HHH(Infinite_Recursion) and HHH(DDD) derive same non-halting execution trace1Mikko
27 Jul 24 +- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Richard Damon
27 Jul 24 +* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace56Fred. Zwarts
27 Jul 24 i`* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace55olcott
27 Jul 24 i `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace54Fred. Zwarts
27 Jul 24 i  `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace53olcott
27 Jul 24 i   +* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace50Alan Mackenzie
27 Jul 24 i   i+* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace17olcott
27 Jul 24 i   ii+* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace9Alan Mackenzie
27 Jul 24 i   iii`* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace8olcott
27 Jul 24 i   iii `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace7Alan Mackenzie
27 Jul 24 i   iii  `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace6olcott
27 Jul 24 i   iii   `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace5Alan Mackenzie
28 Jul 24 i   iii    `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace4olcott
28 Jul 24 i   iii     `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace3Alan Mackenzie
28 Jul 24 i   iii      `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace2olcott
28 Jul 24 i   iii       `- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Richard Damon
28 Jul 24 i   ii`* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace7Mikko
29 Jul 24 i   ii `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace6olcott
29 Jul 24 i   ii  +- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Richard Damon
29 Jul 24 i   ii  `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace4Mikko
29 Jul 24 i   ii   `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace3olcott
29 Jul 24 i   ii    +- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Fred. Zwarts
30 Jul 24 i   ii    `- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Mikko
28 Jul 24 i   i+* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace27Mike Terry
28 Jul 24 i   ii+- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Richard Damon
28 Jul 24 i   ii+* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace21olcott
28 Jul 24 i   iii+- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Richard Damon
28 Jul 24 i   iii`* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace19Fred. Zwarts
28 Jul 24 i   iii `* HHH(DDD) sees the exact same behavior pattern as HHH(Infinite_Recursion)18olcott
28 Jul 24 i   iii  +- Re: HHH(DDD) does not see the exact same behavior pattern as HHH(Infinite_Recursion)1Richard Damon
28 Jul 24 i   iii  `* Re: HHH(DDD) sees the exact same behavior pattern as HHH(Infinite_Recursion)16Fred. Zwarts
28 Jul 24 i   iii   `* Re: HHH(DDD) sees the exact same behavior pattern as HHH(Infinite_Recursion)15olcott
28 Jul 24 i   iii    +- Re: HHH(DDD) sees the exact same behavior pattern as HHH(Infinite_Recursion) unless it can abort.1Richard Damon
29 Jul 24 i   iii    `* Re: HHH(DDD) sees the exact same behavior pattern as HHH(Infinite_Recursion)13Fred. Zwarts
29 Jul 24 i   iii     `* Re: HHH(DDD) sees the exact same behavior pattern as HHH(Infinite_Recursion)12olcott
29 Jul 24 i   iii      `* Re: HHH(DDD) sees the exact same behavior pattern as HHH(Infinite_Recursion)11Fred. Zwarts
30 Jul 24 i   iii       `* Re: HHH(DDD) sees the exact same behavior pattern as HHH(Infinite_Recursion)10Mike Terry
30 Jul 24 i   iii        `* Re: HHH(DDD) sees the exact same behavior pattern as HHH(Infinite_Recursion)9olcott
30 Jul 24 i   iii         +- Re: HHH(DDD) does not see the exact same behavior pattern as HHH(Infinite_Recursion) OLCOTTS ERROR1Richard Damon
30 Jul 24 i   iii         +* Re: HHH(DDD) sees the exact same behavior pattern as HHH(Infinite_Recursion)6joes
31 Jul 24 i   iii         i`* Re: HHH(DDD) sees the exact same behavior pattern as HHH(Infinite_Recursion)5Mike Terry
31 Jul 24 i   iii         i `* Linz proof is essentially isomorphic4olcott
31 Jul 24 i   iii         i  `* Re: Linz proof is essentially isomorphic3Richard Damon
31 Jul 24 i   iii         i   `* Re: Linz proof is essentially isomorphic2olcott
31 Jul 24 i   iii         i    `- Re: Linz proof is essentially isomorphic1Richard Damon
30 Jul 24 i   iii         `- Re: HHH(DDD) sees the exact same behavior pattern as HHH(Infinite_Recursion)1Fred. Zwarts
28 Jul 24 i   ii`* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace4Alan Mackenzie
28 Jul 24 i   i`* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace5Mikko
27 Jul 24 i   `* Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace2Fred. Zwarts
3 Aug 24 `- Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the execution trace1Mikko

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