Re: embedded_H applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩

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Sujet : Re: embedded_H applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
De : polcott333 (at) *nospam* gmail.com (olcott)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 29. Jul 2024, 21:16:20
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <v88tal$klqc$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 7/29/2024 3:08 PM, joes wrote:
Am Mon, 29 Jul 2024 11:16:13 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 7/28/2024 3:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-07-27 14:08:10 +0000, olcott said:
On 7/27/2024 2:21 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-07-26 14:08:11 +0000, olcott said:
On 7/26/2024 3:45 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-07-24 13:33:55 +0000, olcott said:
On 7/24/2024 3:57 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-07-23 13:31:35 +0000, olcott said:
On 7/23/2024 1:32 AM, 0 wrote:
On 2024-07-22 13:46:21 +0000, olcott said:
On 7/22/2024 2:57 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-07-21 13:34:40 +0000, olcott said:
On 7/21/2024 4:34 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-07-20 13:11:03 +0000, olcott said:
On 7/20/2024 3:21 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-07-19 14:08:24 +0000, olcott said:
 
(b) We know that a decider is not allowed to report on the
behavior computation that itself is contained within.
>
No, we don't. There is no such prohibition.
 
Another different TM can take the TM description of this
machine and thus accurately report on its actual behavior.
If a Turing machine can take a description of a TM as its input
or as a part of its input it can also take its own description.
Every Turing machine can be given its own description as input
but a Turing machine may interprete it as something else.
>
In this case we have two x86utm machines that are identical
except that DDD calls HHH and DDD does not call HHH1.
>
That DDD calls HHH and DDD does not call HHH1 is not a difference
between two unnamed turing machines.
>
The same thing happens at the Peter Linz Turing Machine level I
will provide that more difficult example if and only if you prove
that you understand this one.
Way to disgruntle your "reviewers".
 
However, Peter Linz does not call taht same thing a difference.
 
Some of the properties you assert exsit actually do exist, some
don't.
 
(a) Ĥ copies its input ⟨Ĥ⟩
(b) Ĥ invokes embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
(c) embedded_H simulates ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
(d) simulated ⟨Ĥ⟩ copies its input ⟨Ĥ⟩
(e) simulated ⟨Ĥ⟩ invokes simulated embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
(f) simulated embedded_H simulates ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
(g) goto (d) with one more level of simulation
You are supposed to evaluate the above as a contiguous sequence of
moves such that non-halting behavior is identified.
>
The above is an obvious tight loop of (d), (e), (f), and (g).
Its relevance (it any) to the topic of the discussion is not obvious.
>
When we compute the mapping from the input to embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
to the behavior specified by this input we know that embedded_H is
correct to transition to Ĥ.qn.
Everyone say no, no that it not the behavior of the computation that
embedded_H is contained within: Ĥ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩.
It is not supposed to be (or allowed to be) the behavior of the
executing Turing machine that embedded_H is contained within.
It is only supposed to be the behavior that the input to embedded_H
specifies and this includes recursive simulation.
 From the fact that the simulation is recursive we know that the
embedded H is the same as the outer one.
 
It is a fact that embedded_H aborts the simulation of its input
or itself never stops running.
--
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

Date Sujet#  Auteur
12 Jul 24 * DDD correctly emulated by HHH is correctly rejected as non-halting V2214olcott
12 Jul 24 +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is correctly rejected as non-halting V21Fred. Zwarts
13 Jul 24 +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INcorrectly rejected as non-halting V2186Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2185olcott
13 Jul 24 i +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V27Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V26olcott
13 Jul 24 i i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V24joes
13 Jul 24 i i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V23olcott
13 Jul 24 i i   +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21joes
13 Jul 24 i i   `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2177Fred. Zwarts
13 Jul 24 i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2176olcott
13 Jul 24 i   +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2171Fred. Zwarts
13 Jul 24 i   i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2170olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V215Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V214olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V213Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V212olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i   `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V211Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i    `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V210olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i     `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V29Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i      `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V28olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i       `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V27Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i        `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V26olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i         `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V25Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i          `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V24olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i           `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is *IN*Correctly rejected as non-halting V23Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i            `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is *IN*Correctly rejected as non-halting V22olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i             `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is *IN*Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2147joes
13 Jul 24 i   i i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2146olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   i i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2144joes
13 Jul 24 i   i i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2143olcott
13 Jul 24 i   i i   +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
14 Jul 24 i   i i   `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2141joes
14 Jul 24 i   i i    `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2140olcott
14 Jul 24 i   i i     +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2138joes
14 Jul 24 i   i i     i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2137olcott
14 Jul 24 i   i i     i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
14 Jul 24 i   i i     i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2135joes
14 Jul 24 i   i i     i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2134olcott
14 Jul 24 i   i i     i   +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2125joes
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i+* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V228olcott
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii+- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is IN*Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V226joes
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V225olcott
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii  +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Fred. Zwarts
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii  +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V222Mikko
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii   `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V221olcott
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii    +- Re: DDD incorrectly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii    `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V219Mikko
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii     `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V218olcott
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V210Fred. Zwarts
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V29olcott
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Fred. Zwarts
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V25joes
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V24olcott
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i i +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V22joes
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i i i`- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21olcott
18 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i i `- Re: DDD incorrectly emulated by HHH is inCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
18 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i +- Re: DDD incorrectly emulated by HHH is inCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
18 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      i `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Mikko
18 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      +- Re: DDD incorrectly emulated by HHH is inCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
18 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii      `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V26Mikko
18 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii       `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V25olcott
18 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii        +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Fred. Zwarts
19 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii        `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V23Mikko
19 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii         `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V22olcott
19 Jul 24 i   i i     i   ii          `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V296Mike Terry
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V295olcott
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V25Fred. Zwarts
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V24olcott
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21joes
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Fred. Zwarts
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  i `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V286joes
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  i+* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V282olcott
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  ii+* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V280joes
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V279olcott
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Fred. Zwarts
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V276joes
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V275olcott
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V273joes
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V272olcott
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V269joes
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V268olcott
19 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V267Mikko
19 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V266olcott
20 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i   `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V265Mikko
20 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i    `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V264olcott
20 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i     +- Re: DDD INcorrectly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
21 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i     `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V262Mikko
21 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i      `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V261olcott
21 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i       +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21joes
21 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i       +- Re: DDD INcorrectly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
22 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   i       `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V258Mikko
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   +- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21Fred. Zwarts
17 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii i   `- Re: DDD incorrectly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  iii `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
16 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  ii`- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V23Mike Terry
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   i  `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is *IN*Correctly rejected as non-halting V23Richard Damon
15 Jul 24 i   i i     i   `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V27Mikko
14 Jul 24 i   i i     `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V21Richard Damon
14 Jul 24 i   i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V27Mikko
13 Jul 24 i   +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is INCorrectly rejected as non-halting V23Richard Damon
13 Jul 24 i   `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V21joes
13 Jul 24 +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is correctly rejected as non-halting V22Mikko
14 Jul 24 `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is correctly rejected as non-halting V224Mikko

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