Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly

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Sujet : Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly
De : F.Zwarts (at) *nospam* HetNet.nl (Fred. Zwarts)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 01. Aug 2024, 12:36:14
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <v8frve$24u76$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
Op 01.aug.2024 om 13:20 schreef olcott:
On 8/1/2024 2:18 AM, joes wrote:
Am Wed, 31 Jul 2024 16:27:58 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 7/31/2024 3:09 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
Op 31.jul.2024 om 18:32 schreef olcott:
On 7/31/2024 11:17 AM, joes wrote:
Am Wed, 31 Jul 2024 10:02:26 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 7/31/2024 9:16 AM, joes wrote:
Am Wed, 31 Jul 2024 05:52:54 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 7/31/2024 3:54 AM, joes wrote:
Am Tue, 30 Jul 2024 16:13:55 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 7/30/2024 4:07 PM, joes wrote:
Am Tue, 30 Jul 2024 15:05:54 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 7/30/2024 1:48 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
Op 30.jul.2024 om 17:14 schreef olcott:
On 7/30/2024 9:51 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
Op 30.jul.2024 om 16:21 schreef olcott:
On 7/30/2024 1:52 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-07-29 14:07:53 +0000, olcott said:
>
I proved otherwise. When the abort code is commented out then
it keeps repeating again and again, thus conclusively proving
that is must be aborted or HHH never halts.
But the abort is not commented out in the running code!
>
I modified the original code by commenting out the abort and it
does endlessly repeat just like HHH correctly predicted.
>
Yes, and that modification makes HHH not call itself
Not at all. It makes HHH stop aborting DDD.
So that HHH and DDD endlessly repeat.
>
Commenting out a section changes the program.
This conclusively proving that this section was required.
When you put in the abort, it also appears in the simulated HHH.
>
Yet this is unreachable in the same way that in a single file foot
race with everyone going the same speed and everyone 15 feet ahead of
the next person that the first person must win.
>
Yet that is no reason for the person in front to kill all other people,
because otherwise they would not stop running.
The first person will stop at the finish, the second person will stop
at the finish, the third .... etc.
>
There is no reason to assume that there are persons that will keep
running indefinitely.
They will run unto the finish.
>
The outermost HHH sees that it must abort one whole execution trace
sooner than the next inner HHH.
But it is wrong to assume that the simulated HHH would not have halted
when not aborted.
It has never been an assumption is has always been a tautology that has
always been over your head. Joes may be catching up with the Linz proof.
If one of them aborts, all of them do.
>
 If the outer one waits for the next inner one then they all
wait for their own next inner one and none of them ever abort.
Indeed! It seems you now almost understand it.
The outer one doesn't wait for the inner one, because it is programmed to abort.
Therefore, the outer one is incorrect, because it does not wait.
This proves that it is impossible to create a HHH that simulates itself correctly.
If it waits it is incorrect, if it doesn't wait it is incorrect, too.
It shows that the idea of HHH simulating itself is not a clever idea.
HHH cannot possibly simulate itself correctly.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
29 Jul 24 * Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see...78olcott
29 Jul 24 +* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see...5Fred. Zwarts
29 Jul 24 i`* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see...4olcott
29 Jul 24 i `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see...3Fred. Zwarts
29 Jul 24 i  `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see...2olcott
30 Jul 24 i   `- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see...1Fred. Zwarts
30 Jul 24 +- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... DDD will HALT if HHH answers1Richard Damon
30 Jul 24 `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see...71Mikko
30 Jul 24  `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see...70olcott
30 Jul 24   +* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see...57Fred. Zwarts
30 Jul 24   i`* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly56olcott
30 Jul 24   i `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly55Fred. Zwarts
30 Jul 24   i  `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly54olcott
30 Jul 24   i   +* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly51joes
30 Jul 24   i   i`* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly50olcott
31 Jul 24   i   i +* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly25Mad Hamish
31 Jul 24   i   i i`* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly24olcott
1 Aug 24   i   i i `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly23wij
1 Aug 24   i   i i  `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly22olcott
1 Aug 24   i   i i   +* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly7wij
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i+* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly2olcott
1 Aug 24   i   i i   ii`- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly1wij
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i`* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly4Mikko
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly3olcott
2 Aug 24   i   i i   i  +- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict *IN*correctly1Richard Damon
2 Aug 24   i   i i   i  `- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly1Mikko
1 Aug 24   i   i i   +* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly11Fred. Zwarts
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i`* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly10olcott
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i +* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly7Fred. Zwarts
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i i`* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly6olcott
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i i +- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly1Fred. Zwarts
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i i `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly4joes
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i i  `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly3olcott
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i i   `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly2joes
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i i    `- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly1olcott
2 Aug 24   i   i i   i +- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict INcorrectly1Richard Damon
2 Aug 24   i   i i   i `- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly1Mikko
1 Aug 24   i   i i   `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly is to say Halting,3Richard Damon
1 Aug 24   i   i i    `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly is to say Halting,2olcott
2 Aug 24   i   i i     `- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly is to say Halting,1Richard Damon
31 Jul 24   i   i +- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly1Richard Damon
31 Jul 24   i   i +* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly22joes
31 Jul 24   i   i i`* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly21olcott
31 Jul 24   i   i i +- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict INcorrectly1Richard Damon
31 Jul 24   i   i i `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly19joes
31 Jul 24   i   i i  `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly18olcott
31 Jul 24   i   i i   +* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly16joes
31 Jul 24   i   i i   i`* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly15olcott
31 Jul 24   i   i i   i `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly14Fred. Zwarts
31 Jul 24   i   i i   i  `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly13olcott
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i   +* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly7joes
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i   i`* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly6olcott
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i   i `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly5Fred. Zwarts
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i   i  `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly4olcott
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i   i   `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly3Fred. Zwarts
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i   i    `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly2olcott
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i   i     `- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly1Fred. Zwarts
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i   `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly5Fred. Zwarts
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i    `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly4olcott
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i     `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly3Fred. Zwarts
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i      `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly2olcott
1 Aug 24   i   i i   i       `- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly1Fred. Zwarts
1 Aug 24   i   i i   `- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... H predicts INcorrectly1Richard Damon
31 Jul 24   i   i `- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly1Fred. Zwarts
31 Jul 24   i   +- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict INcorrectly1Richard Damon
31 Jul 24   i   `- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... predict correctly1Fred. Zwarts
31 Jul 24   +- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see...1Richard Damon
31 Jul 24   `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see...11Mikko
31 Jul 24    +* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see...4Mikko
31 Jul 24    i`* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see...3olcott
1 Aug 24    i +- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... The H incorrectly decides on the input.1Richard Damon
2 Aug 24    i `- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see...1Mikko
31 Jul 24    `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see...6olcott
1 Aug 24     +- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see... H predicts incorrectly1Richard Damon
2 Aug 24     `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see...4Mikko
2 Aug 24      `* Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see...3olcott
2 Aug 24       +- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see...1Richard Damon
3 Aug 24       `- Re: Any honest person that knows the x86 language can see...1Mikko

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