Re: Even Google AI Overview understands me now --- different execution traces have different behavior !!!

On 10/3/24 5:01 PM, olcott wrote:

On 10/3/2024 7:15 AM, Mikko wrote:

On 2024-10-03 02:09:39 +0000, olcott said:
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On 10/2/2024 5:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 10/2/24 10:39 AM, olcott wrote:

On 10/2/2024 6:08 AM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 10/1/24 7:26 PM, olcott wrote:

On 10/1/2024 12:58 PM, joes wrote:

Am Tue, 01 Oct 2024 12:31:41 -0500 schrieb olcott:

On 10/1/2024 8:09 AM, joes wrote:

Am Tue, 01 Oct 2024 07:39:18 -0500 schrieb olcott:

On 10/1/2024 7:19 AM, olcott wrote:

https://www.google.com/search?
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q=Termination+Analyzer+H+is+Not+Fooled+by+Pathological+Input+D&sca_esv=889093c5cb21af9e&sca_upv=1&source=hp&ei=Muf7ZpOyMZHfwN4PwYL2gAc&iflsig=AL9hbdgAAAAAZvv1Qg04jNg2ze170z3a8BSGu8pA29Fj&ved=0ahUKEwiTk7zkk-2IAxWRL9AFHUGBHXAQ4dUDCBg&uact=5&oq=Termination+Analyzer+H+is+Not+Fooled+by+Pathological+Input+D&gs_lp=Egdnd3Mtd2l6IjxUZXJtaW5hdGlvbiBBbmFseXplciBIIGlzIE5vdCBGb29sZWQgYnkgUGF0aG9sb2dpY2FsIElucHV0IERIAFAAWABwAHgAkAEAmAEAoAEAqgEAuAEDyAEA-

AEC-AEBmAIAoAIAmAMAkgcAoAcA&sclient=gws-wiz

https://chatgpt.com/share/66fbec5c-7b10-8011-9ce6-3c26424cb21c

It sounds like it’s trained on your spam. LLMs don’t know anything
anyway.

>

I asked: „What happens when HHH tries to simulate itself?”
ChatGPT: [my comments in brackets]

>

### 1. **Self-Invocation in HHH**
If `HHH` calls itself (i.e., `HHH(HHH)`), it creates an infinite loop
of calls unless there is some form of termination condition built into
`HHH`.
Without such a condition, `HHH` would never return, resulting in non-
termination.
[So not a decider.]
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### 2. **Halting Criteria**
In a well-designed termination analyzer, `HHH` would need to have
specific logic to prevent endless recursion:

>

[Not present.]
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### 3. **Practical Consequences**
If `HHH` lacks the ability to handle self-referential calls correctly:
- **Stack Overflow**: Continuous self-invocation will eventually
exhaust the stack memory, leading to a stack overflow error.
[Not considered in theory.]
- **Incorrect Results**: If not designed carefully, it may lead to an
incorrect conclusion about halting, misrepresenting itself as either
halting or non-halting.
>
### 4. **Best Practices for Termination Analyzers**
To avoid these pitfalls, a termination analyzer should implement:
- **Guard Clauses**: Checks at the beginning of the function to prevent
unnecessary self-simulation.
- **State Management**: A way to track the functions being analyzed,
allowing `HHH` to recognize if it's being invoked with itself and act
accordingly.
>
### Conclusion In summary, if `HHH` tries to simulate itself without
proper safeguards,
it risks falling into an infinite recursion or causing a stack
overflow. A robust design would include checks to prevent
self-invocation, ensuring the termination analyzer can handle all
cases, including its own function,
gracefully.
>

*You can continue this conversation with ChatGPT*

I’ll leave that to you.

Click on the link and see how it answers this question:
Is H a Halt Decider for D?

You should feed it our objections.
If you believe in it only when you prompt it, it is not suited as an
authority (fallacious anyway).
>

>
You feed it your objections.
It will tell you how and why you are wrong.
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No, it will tell you something that matches the words you told it.
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You don't seem to understand what Large Language Models are.
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You seem to forget that LLM know nothing of the "truth", only what matches their training data.
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They are know to be liars, just like you.

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In the case of their evaluation of my work they are correct.
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*Try this yourself*
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https://chatgpt.com/share/66fbec5c-7b10-8011-9ce6-3c26424cb21c
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Does HHH have to abort its emulation of DDD to prevent the infinite execution of DDD?
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Try asking it
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Why is it ok for HHH to say that DDD doesn't halt when it will when run?
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You guys try to pretend that the pathological relationship between
HHH and DDD does not make any difference to the behavior of DDD
knowing full well that it does make a difference.

>
The behaviour of DDD is what DDD does if executed. As DDD takes no input
its behavour is always the same. What does "make a difference" mean
in this context?
>

 The behavior of the directly executed DDD is essentially the
behavior of what would otherwise be infinite recursion except
that the second recursive call has already been aborted.

Nol, the recursion was NEVER infinite, becuase the HHH that it calls ALWAYS aborts its simulation at that point.

 This is not the same as the behavior of DDD correctly emulated
by the same emulator that it calls where HHH cannot rely on DDD
being aborted by any other process than itself.

No, that is EXACTLY the behavior of DDD correctly emulated,
THe fact that HHH doesn't do that means your criteria is just invalid.

 Do an entirely different thing and expecting the same results
is just as insane as doing the same thing and expecting different results.
 

Right, the fact that HHH presumes that the HHH that DDD does will do something different than it does makes HHH wrong, and the fact that its programmer thinks it WILL do something different shows he is actually INSAIN.
Think of it this way, If you were3 DEAD, you wouldn't need to worry any more about dying. Does that mean that you shouldn't worry about yourself dying.
No, because you are not dead yet.
Thus, by the same token, HHH can't consider that the HHH that DDD is calling is different than what it will do itself, and thus since i WILL abort, it is just lying to itself (or its programmer lied to it) for it to think it will behave differently.
All you are doing is PROVING that you think LYING is valid logic, and it is ok to think things are the way they are not.
Thus you are AGREEING with the Climate Change and Election deniers, you are telling them it is ok to ignore the actual facts and hold on to there strongly held beleive, because, by your logic, they can consider there ideas trud.
Sorry, *YOU* are the ond trying to DOOM the world by your lies, and have likely doomed your soul to an eternity in the pit, maybe going over and over your proof trying to get it to work, because you life has been based on LIES.
You are just showing that:
PPPP   EEEEE  TTTTT  EEEEE  RRRR
P   P  E        T    E      R   R
P   P  E        T    E      R   R
PPPP   EEEEE    T    EEEEE  RRRR
P      E        T    E      R R
P      E        T    E      R  R
P      EEEEE    T    EEEEE  R   R
  OOO   L       CCC    OOO   TTTTT  TTTTT
O   O  L      C   C  O   O    T      T
O   O  L      C      O   O    T      T
O   O  L      C      O   O    T      T
O   O  L      C      O   O    T      T
O   O  L      C   C  O   O    T      T
  OOO   LLLLL   CCC    OOO     T      T
L     IIIII  EEEEE   SSS
L       I    E      S   S
L       I    E      S
L       I    EEEEE   SSS
L       I    E          S
L       I    E      S   S
LLLLL IIIII  EEEEE   SSS
AND THINKS THAT IS JUST OK.