Re: The philosophy of computation reformulates existing ideas on a new basis --- x86 code is a liar?

On 11/5/2024 7:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 11/5/24 8:22 PM, olcott wrote:

On 11/5/2024 6:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 11/5/24 12:08 PM, olcott wrote:

On 11/5/2024 6:03 AM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 11/4/24 10:15 PM, olcott wrote:

On 11/4/2024 8:42 PM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 11/4/24 8:32 PM, olcott wrote:

On 11/4/2024 6:21 PM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 11/4/24 7:48 AM, olcott wrote:

On 11/4/2024 6:07 AM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 11/3/24 11:03 PM, olcott wrote:

On 11/3/2024 9:57 PM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 11/3/24 10:19 PM, olcott wrote:

On 11/3/2024 7:46 PM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 11/3/24 8:38 PM, olcott wrote:

On 11/3/2024 7:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 11/3/24 8:21 PM, olcott wrote:

>
What would an unbounded emulation do?
>

>
Keep on emulating for an unbounded number of steps.
>
Something you don't seem to understand as part of the requirements.
>
Non-Halting isn't just did reach a final state in some finite number of steps, but that it will NEVER reach a final state even if you process an unbounded number of steps.

>
Would an unbounded emulation of DDD by HHH halt?

>
Not a valid question, as your HHH does not do an unbounded emulation, but aborts after a defined time.
>

>
*Now you are contradicting yourself*
YOU JUST SAID THAT HHH NEED NOT DO AN UNBOUNDED
EMULATION TO PREDICT WHAT AN UNBOUNDED EMULATION WOULD DO.

>
Right. it doesn't NEED to do the operation, just report what an unbounded emulation would do.
>
You asked about an "unbounded emulation of DDD by HHH" but that isn't possible, as HHH doesn't do that.
>

>
On 11/3/2024 12:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
 > On 11/3/24 9:39 AM, olcott wrote:
 >>
 >> The finite string input to HHH specifies that HHH
 >> MUST EMULATE ITSELF emulating DDD.
 >
 > Right, and it must CORRECTLY determine what an unbounded
 > emulation of that input would do, even if its own programming
 > only lets it emulate a part of that.
 >
>
*You JUST said that HHH does not need to do an unbounded emulation*
*You JUST said that HHH does not need to do an unbounded emulation*
*You JUST said that HHH does not need to do an unbounded emulation*
*You JUST said that HHH does not need to do an unbounded emulation*
>

>
Right, it doesn't need to DO the unbounded emulatiohn just figure out what it would do.
>
Just like we can compute:
>
1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + ... + 1/2^n + ...
>
Ether by adding the infinite number of terms, or we can notice something about it to say it will sum, in the infinite limit, to 2.
>
>
In the same way, if HHH can see something in its simulation that tells it THIS this program can NEVER halt, it can report it.
>

>
Anyone with sufficient technical competence can see that
the unbounded emulation of DDD emulated by HHH can never halt.

>
No, because the HHH that is given doesn't do that, and that is the only one that matters.
>

>
On 11/3/2024 12:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
 > On 11/3/24 9:39 AM, olcott wrote:
 >>
 >> The finite string input to HHH specifies that HHH
 >> MUST EMULATE ITSELF emulating DDD.
 >
 > Right, and it must CORRECTLY determine what an unbounded
 > emulation of that input would do, even if its own programming
 > only lets it emulate a part of that.
 >
>
If you are going to keep contradicting yourself
I am going to stop looking at anything you say.

>
And where is the contradiction?
>
HHH doesn't need to do the unlimited emulation, just say what the unlimited emulation by the unlimited emulator (which WILL be a different program) will do.
>

>
That is what I have been saying all along.

>
So, you agree that HHH1's emulation to the completion shows that the complete emulation of the input to HHH does halt, and thus the correct answer for HHH to give for *THIS* input, which has implicitly included *THIS* HHH as part of it, is that it halts.
>

>
Nothing like this.
You continue to fail to understand that halting
requires reaching the "return" instruction final
halt state. DDD emulated by HHH never does this.

>
But the emulation by HHH isn't the correct measure of DDD reaching its return statement.
>

>
Well we did get somewhere on this so that is more progress.
Only reaching the final state is halting.

 And only something that continues to the end shows that, an emulation that aborts doesn't show that the input is non-halting unless it can prove that the unaborted emulation of that EXACT PROGRAM would never halt.
 

That statement is self-contradictory. The exact same
program that aborts is different than when it would
never abort.

>

By the correct meaning of the statement, it is just false.
>

>
ChatGPT explains why and how it <is> the correct measure
in its own words and from a point of view that I not tell
it or even see for myself.
>
https://chatgpt.com/share/67158ec6-3398-8011-98d1-41198baa29f2

 Base on your LIES, so doesn't mean anything,
 

Not at all. It has acquired its own understanding
and cannot be convinced that this understanding is
incorrect.

>

By your attempted meaning, it is just nonsense, and thus a lie to claim it to be true.
>

>
*It is actually your words that are nonsense*
>
(a) Finite string of x86 machine code DDD +

 Which include the code of the HHH that DDD calls, which you have said is the HHH that aborts and returns the answer.
 

HHH examines what would happen if it didn't abort just
like you already correctly said:
On 11/3/2024 12:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
 > On 11/3/24 9:39 AM, olcott wrote:
 >>
 >> The finite string input to HHH specifies that HHH
 >> MUST EMULATE ITSELF emulating DDD.
 >
 > Right, and it must CORRECTLY determine what an unbounded
 > emulation of that input would do, even if its own programming
 > only lets it emulate a part of that.
 >
The unbounded emulation of DDD by HHH is the emulation of
DDD where HHH DOES NOT ABORT, that is what unbounded means.
--
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer