Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass

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Sujet : Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass
De : F.Zwarts (at) *nospam* HetNet.nl (Fred. Zwarts)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 02. Mar 2025, 23:15:20
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Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <vq2l9p$tth2$2@dont-email.me>
References : 1
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Op 02.mrt.2025 om 22:21 schreef olcott:
int DD()
{
   int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
   if (Halt_Status)
     HERE: goto HERE;
   return Halt_Status;
}
 _DD()
[00002133] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002134] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
[00002136] 51         push ecx      ; make space for local
[00002137] 6833210000 push 00002133 ; push DD
[0000213c] e882f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DD)
[00002141] 83c404     add esp,+04
[00002144] 8945fc     mov [ebp-04],eax
[00002147] 837dfc00   cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
[0000214b] 7402       jz 0000214f
[0000214d] ebfe       jmp 0000214d
[0000214f] 8b45fc     mov eax,[ebp-04]
[00002152] 8be5       mov esp,ebp
[00002154] 5d         pop ebp
[00002155] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0035) [00002155]
 DD emulated by HHH according to the behavior that DD
specifies cannot possibly reach its own "ret" instruction
and terminate normally.
 This process computes the mapping from the actual input
(not any other damn thing) finite string to the non
terminating behavior that this finite specifies when
it calls its own emulator in recursive emulation.
In other words 'non terminating behavior' means that *HHH* was unable to reach the 'ret' instruction. So in Olcott's terminology 'non terminating behavior' is a property of the simulator of DD, not of DD in the context of the x86 language. 'Non termination behaviour' used in this way means only one thing: HHH could not possibly reach the end of the simulation.

 Another different instance that does not call its own
emulator in recursive emulation is not the same damn thing.
 
Exactly the same instance of the finite string DD, when given for direct execution, or to correct simulator, does reach the 'ret' instruction.
So we can reach agreement if we make the following claims:
1) Direct execution reaches the 'ret' instruction of exactly the same finite string DD.
2) HHH cannot possibly reach the 'ret' instruction of exactly the same finite string DD.
3) A yellow carrot does not even reach the first instruction of exactly the same finite string DD.
4) HHH1 reaches the 'ret' instruction of exactly the same finite string  DD.
If termination behaviour is changed to mean something about the environment, instead of DD itself, then 1 and 4 show termination behaviour and 2 and 3 show non termination behaviour for exactly the same finite string DD.
What is the value of his result? Who is interested in the possibility to make a simulator that does not reach the 'ret' instruction of a program if other environments reach that instruction without problems?

Date Sujet#  Auteur
2 Mar 25 * DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass37olcott
2 Mar 25 +* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass11Richard Damon
2 Mar 25 i`* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass10olcott
3 Mar 25 i `* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass9Richard Damon
3 Mar 25 i  `* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass8olcott
3 Mar 25 i   +- Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass1wij
3 Mar 25 i   `* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass6Richard Damon
3 Mar 25 i    `* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass5olcott
3 Mar 25 i     +* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass3joes
3 Mar 25 i     i`* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass2olcott
4 Mar 25 i     i `- Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass1Richard Damon
3 Mar 25 i     `- Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass1Richard Damon
2 Mar 25 +* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass21Fred. Zwarts
2 Mar 25 i`* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass20olcott
3 Mar 25 i +* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass13Richard Damon
3 Mar 25 i i`* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass12olcott
3 Mar 25 i i +* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass3Richard Damon
3 Mar 25 i i i`* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass2olcott
3 Mar 25 i i i `- Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass1Richard Damon
3 Mar 25 i i +- Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass1joes
3 Mar 25 i i `* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass7Fred. Zwarts
3 Mar 25 i i  `* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass6olcott
3 Mar 25 i i   +* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass4Fred. Zwarts
4 Mar 25 i i   i`* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass3olcott
4 Mar 25 i i   i +- Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass1Richard Damon
4 Mar 25 i i   i `- Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass1Fred. Zwarts
4 Mar 25 i i   `- Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass1Richard Damon
3 Mar 25 i `* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass6Fred. Zwarts
3 Mar 25 i  `* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass5olcott
3 Mar 25 i   +* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass3Fred. Zwarts
4 Mar 25 i   i`* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass2olcott
4 Mar 25 i   i `- Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass1Fred. Zwarts
4 Mar 25 i   `- Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass1Richard Damon
3 Mar 25 `* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass4Mikko
3 Mar 25  `* Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass3olcott
4 Mar 25   +- Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass1Richard Damon
4 Mar 25   `- Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Kicking the straw-man deception out on its ass1Mikko

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