Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1

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Sujet : Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1
De : richard (at) *nospam* damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 29. Mar 2025, 21:49:45
Autres entêtes
Organisation : i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID : <f6466aff0d587e71f1a8bdb3bd286ba05c1376c4@i2pn2.org>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 3/29/25 4:34 PM, olcott wrote:
On 3/29/2025 2:46 PM, joes wrote:
Am Sat, 29 Mar 2025 14:22:31 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 3/29/2025 2:06 PM, dbush wrote:
On 3/29/2025 3:03 PM, olcott wrote:
On 3/29/2025 10:23 AM, dbush wrote:
On 3/29/2025 11:12 AM, olcott wrote:
On 3/28/2025 11:00 PM, dbush wrote:
On 3/28/2025 11:45 PM, olcott wrote:
>
It defines that it must compute the mapping from the direct
execution of a Turing Machine
No. The mapping *to*.
>
Which does not require tracing an actual running TM, only mapping
properties of the TM described.
>
The key fact that you continue to dishonestly ignore is the concrete
counter-example that I provided that conclusively proves that the
finite string of machine code input is not always a valid proxy for
the behavior of the underlying virtual machine.
 
No, it is a confirmation of the impossibility of a halt decider.
>
 In the same way that it is impossible to compute the
actual sum of 2 + 3 as 7.
No, 2 + 3 has the fixed answer of 5
Halting can't be computed, as for every possible halt decider, there will be an input which has a defined halting behavior, but the decider gave the wrong answer to it.

 
In other words, you deny the concept of a UTM, which can take a
description of any Turing machine and exactly reproduce the behavior
of the direct execution.
>
I deny that a pathological relationship between a UTM and its input
can be correctly ignored.
 
It isn't being ignored. You are saying the direct execution is wrong.
>
 I am saying that it is incorrect for a termination
analyzer to report on anything other than the behavior
that is specified by its actual inputs.
and that behavior is, and only is, the behavior of the program described by the input when run.
Since that isn't what your decider matched, it is just wrong.
If you claim it is trying to aswer about some other behavior, then you are just admitting you are lying to try to call it a halt decider, and admitting to falling into your own strawman error.

 
In such a case, the UTM will not halt, and neither will the input when
executed directly.
>
It is not impossible to adapt a UTM such that it correctly simulates a
finite number of steps of an input.
There goes universality.
>
 

Date Sujet#  Auteur
20 Mar 25 * DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined489olcott
20 Mar 25 +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined450Mikko
20 Mar 25 i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined449olcott
21 Mar 25 i +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined441Richard Damon
21 Mar 25 i i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined440olcott
21 Mar 25 i i +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined436Mikko
21 Mar 25 i i i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined435olcott
22 Mar 25 i i i +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined433Richard Damon
22 Mar 25 i i i i`* DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined 2432olcott
22 Mar 25 i i i i +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined 2427Richard Damon
22 Mar 25 i i i i i+* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined 25olcott
22 Mar 25 i i i i ii+* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined 23Richard Damon
22 Mar 25 i i i i iii`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined 22olcott
22 Mar 25 i i i i iii `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined 21Richard Damon
22 Mar 25 i i i i ii`- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined 21Mikko
22 Mar 25 i i i i i`* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined 2 addendum421olcott
22 Mar 25 i i i i i +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined 2 addendum419joes
22 Mar 25 i i i i i i`* III correctly emulated by EEE ---418olcott
22 Mar 25 i i i i i i +* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---416Richard Damon
22 Mar 25 i i i i i i i`* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---415olcott
23 Mar 25 i i i i i i i +* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---413Richard Damon
23 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i`* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---412olcott
23 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i `* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---411Richard Damon
23 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i  `* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---410olcott
23 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i   `* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---409Richard Damon
23 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i    `* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---408olcott
24 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i     `* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---407Richard Damon
24 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i      `* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---406olcott
24 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i       `* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---405Richard Damon
24 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i        `* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---404olcott
25 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i         `* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---403Richard Damon
25 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          +* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---389olcott
25 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          i+* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---387joes
25 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii`* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---386olcott
25 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii `* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---385joes
25 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii  `* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---384olcott
26 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   +* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---382Richard Damon
26 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i`* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---381olcott
26 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i `* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---380Richard Damon
26 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i  `* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---379olcott
27 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i   `* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---378Richard Damon
27 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i    `* DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1377olcott
27 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     +* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH139Richard Damon
27 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i`* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH138olcott
27 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i +- Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH11Fred. Zwarts
27 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH136Richard Damon
27 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i  +* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH12olcott
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i  i`- Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH11Richard Damon
27 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i  `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH133olcott
27 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   +* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH131joes
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i+* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH12olcott
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   ii`- Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH11Richard Damon
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i`* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH128olcott
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH127Richard Damon
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i  `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH126olcott
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   +* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH122Richard Damon
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   i`* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH121olcott
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   i `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH120Richard Damon
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   i  `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH119olcott
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   i   `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH118Richard Damon
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   i    `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH117olcott
29 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   i     +* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH18Richard Damon
29 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   i     i`* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH17olcott
29 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   i     i `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH16Richard Damon
29 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   i     i  `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH15olcott
29 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   i     i   `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH14Richard Damon
29 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   i     i    `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH13olcott
29 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   i     i     `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH12Richard Damon
29 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   i     i      `- Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH11Fred. Zwarts
29 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   i     `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH18Mikko
29 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   i      `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH17olcott
29 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   i       +- Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH11Richard Damon
29 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   i       +* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH14joes
29 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   i       i`* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH13olcott
29 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   i       i +- Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH11Richard Damon
30 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   i       i `- Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH11joes
30 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   i       `- Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH11Mikko
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i   `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH13joes
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i    `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH12olcott
29 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   i     `- Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH11joes
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     i   `- Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH11Richard Damon
27 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i     `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1337Fred. Zwarts
27 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i      `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1336olcott
27 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       +* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1319dbush
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i`* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1318olcott
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1317dbush
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i  `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1316olcott
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i   `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1315dbush
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i    `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1314olcott
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i     `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1313dbush
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i      `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1312olcott
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i       +* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH160dbush
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i       i`* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH159olcott
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i       i +* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH142dbush
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i       i i`* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH141olcott
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i       i i +* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH137dbush
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i       i i i`* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH136olcott
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i       i i i +* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH111joes
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i       i i i i`* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH110olcott
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i       i i i i +* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH13dbush
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i       i i i i i`* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH12olcott
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i       i i i i +- Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH11Richard Damon
29 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i       i i i i `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH15Fred. Zwarts
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i       i i i +- Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH11Richard Damon
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i       i i i `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH123dbush
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i       i i `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH13Richard Damon
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i       i +* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH111Fred. Zwarts
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i       i `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH15Fred. Zwarts
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       i       `* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH1251Richard Damon
27 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       +* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH17Fred. Zwarts
27 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       +* Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH18joes
28 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   i       `- Re: DDD specifies recursive emulation to HHH and halting to HHH11Richard Damon
26 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          ii   `- Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---1joes
25 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          i`- Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---1Richard Damon
25 Mar 25 i i i i i i i i          `* Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---13olcott
23 Mar 25 i i i i i i i `- Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---1Mikko
23 Mar 25 i i i i i i `- Re: III correctly emulated by EEE ---1Mikko
22 Mar 25 i i i i i `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined 2 addendum1Richard Damon
22 Mar 25 i i i i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined 24Mikko
22 Mar 25 i i i `- Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined1Mikko
21 Mar 25 i i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined3Richard Damon
21 Mar 25 i `* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined7Mikko
20 Mar 25 +* Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH --- Correct Emulation Defined3Richard Damon
22 Mar 25 `* DDD correctly emulated by EEE --- Correct Emulation Defined35olcott

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