Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots

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Sujet : Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots
De : polcott333 (at) *nospam* gmail.com (olcott)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 15. Apr 2025, 02:23:45
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <vtkcf0$2h48g$4@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 4/14/2025 7:33 AM, joes wrote:
Am Mon, 14 Apr 2025 06:46:20 -0500 schrieb olcott:
Such an HHH works fine when the input DD is not attempting to do the
opposite of whatever this HHH reports. This is not a problem though. DD
merely changes its own behavior through the pathological self-reference
that it implements.
DD doesn’t change anything. It is completeley determined by the return
value of HHH. Either it halts or it doesn’t, and HHH returns the wrong
result.
 
Then HHH simply reports on this changed behavior. HHH need not even know
that DD is calling itself. It only need to know that the behavior of DD
would prevent its own termination.
If HHH reports on what DD *would* do *if* HHH returned the other value,
that’s changing the input. (HHH doesn’t „know” anything at all.)
 
Hypothetical freaking possibilities of alternatives is
not a very difficult thing. I don't understand why its so
hard for you.
--
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

Date Sujet#  Auteur
4 Apr 25 * DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)210olcott
4 Apr 25 +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)6Richard Damon
4 Apr 25 i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)5olcott
4 Apr 25 i +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)3Richard Damon
5 Apr 25 i i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)2olcott
5 Apr 25 i i `- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Richard Damon
4 Apr 25 i `- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Mikko
4 Apr 25 +- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Mikko
5 Apr 25 +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)197olcott
5 Apr 25 i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)196Mikko
5 Apr 25 i `* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)195olcott
6 Apr 25 i  `* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)194Mikko
6 Apr 25 i   `* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)193olcott
6 Apr 25 i    +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)5Richard Damon
7 Apr 25 i    i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)4olcott
7 Apr 25 i    i `* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)3Richard Damon
8 Apr 25 i    i  `* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)2olcott
8 Apr 25 i    i   `- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Richard Damon
7 Apr 25 i    `* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)187Mikko
8 Apr 25 i     `* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)186olcott
8 Apr 25 i      +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)179Fred. Zwarts
8 Apr 25 i      i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)178olcott
8 Apr 25 i      i +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)176Fred. Zwarts
9 Apr 25 i      i i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)175olcott
9 Apr 25 i      i i +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)173Fred. Zwarts
9 Apr 25 i      i i i+* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)7olcott
10 Apr 25 i      i i ii+- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Richard Damon
10 Apr 25 i      i i ii`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)5Fred. Zwarts
11 Apr 25 i      i i ii `* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)4olcott
11 Apr 25 i      i i ii  +- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Richard Damon
11 Apr 25 i      i i ii  +- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Fred. Zwarts
11 Apr 25 i      i i ii  `- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Fred. Zwarts
9 Apr 25 i      i i i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)165olcott
9 Apr 25 i      i i i +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)30dbush
10 Apr 25 i      i i i i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)29olcott
10 Apr 25 i      i i i i +- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Richard Damon
10 Apr 25 i      i i i i +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)15dbush
10 Apr 25 i      i i i i i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)14olcott
10 Apr 25 i      i i i i i +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)10dbush
11 Apr 25 i      i i i i i i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)9olcott
11 Apr 25 i      i i i i i i +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)7dbush
11 Apr 25 i      i i i i i i i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)6olcott
11 Apr 25 i      i i i i i i i +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)4dbush
13 Apr20:49 i      i i i i i i i i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)3olcott
13 Apr20:53 i      i i i i i i i i +- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1dbush
14 Apr01:11 i      i i i i i i i i `- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Richard Damon
11 Apr 25 i      i i i i i i i `- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Richard Damon
11 Apr 25 i      i i i i i i `- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Richard Damon
10 Apr 25 i      i i i i i `* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)3Richard Damon
11 Apr 25 i      i i i i i  `* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)2olcott
11 Apr 25 i      i i i i i   `- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Richard Damon
10 Apr 25 i      i i i i `* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)12Fred. Zwarts
11 Apr 25 i      i i i i  `* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)11olcott
11 Apr 25 i      i i i i   +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)8dbush
13 Apr20:34 i      i i i i   i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)7olcott
13 Apr20:44 i      i i i i   i +- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1dbush
14 Apr00:01 i      i i i i   i +- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Richard Damon
14 Apr09:28 i      i i i i   i `* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)4Mikko
14 Apr12:48 i      i i i i   i  `* Re: DD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)3olcott
14 Apr12:53 i      i i i i   i   +- Re: DD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1dbush
14 Apr23:27 i      i i i i   i   `- Re: DD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Richard Damon
11 Apr 25 i      i i i i   `* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)2Fred. Zwarts
11 Apr 25 i      i i i i    `- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Richard Damon
10 Apr 25 i      i i i +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)121Mikko
11 Apr 25 i      i i i i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)120olcott
11 Apr 25 i      i i i i +- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Richard Damon
11 Apr 25 i      i i i i +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)117Mikko
11 Apr 25 i      i i i i i+* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)113Richard Heathfield
11 Apr 25 i      i i i i ii+* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)108olcott
11 Apr 25 i      i i i i iii+- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Richard Damon
13 Apr09:54 i      i i i i iii`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)106joes
13 Apr11:08 i      i i i i iii +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)5Richard Heathfield
13 Apr20:42 i      i i i i iii i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)4olcott
13 Apr20:46 i      i i i i iii i +- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1dbush
13 Apr22:18 i      i i i i iii i +- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Richard Heathfield
14 Apr00:05 i      i i i i iii i `- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Richard Damon
13 Apr20:59 i      i i i i iii `* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)100olcott
13 Apr21:00 i      i i i i iii  +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)94dbush
13 Apr22:00 i      i i i i iii  i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots93olcott
13 Apr22:03 i      i i i i iii  i +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots17dbush
14 Apr00:32 i      i i i i iii  i i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots16olcott
14 Apr00:51 i      i i i i iii  i i +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots14dbush
14 Apr03:09 i      i i i i iii  i i i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots13olcott
14 Apr03:12 i      i i i i iii  i i i +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots11dbush
14 Apr12:46 i      i i i i iii  i i i i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots10olcott
14 Apr12:52 i      i i i i iii  i i i i +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots4dbush
14 Apr22:43 i      i i i i iii  i i i i i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots3olcott
14 Apr23:14 i      i i i i iii  i i i i i +- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots1dbush
14 Apr23:52 i      i i i i iii  i i i i i `- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots1Richard Damon
14 Apr13:33 i      i i i i iii  i i i i +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots4joes
15 Apr02:23 i      i i i i iii  i i i i i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots3olcott
15 Apr02:30 i      i i i i iii  i i i i i +- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots1dbush
15 Apr03:39 i      i i i i iii  i i i i i `- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots1Richard Damon
14 Apr23:50 i      i i i i iii  i i i i `- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots1Richard Damon
14 Apr03:25 i      i i i i iii  i i i `- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots1Richard Damon
14 Apr01:05 i      i i i i iii  i i `- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots1Richard Damon
14 Apr00:11 i      i i i i iii  i +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots72Richard Damon
14 Apr03:11 i      i i i i iii  i i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots71olcott
14 Apr03:13 i      i i i i iii  i i +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots7dbush
14 Apr13:01 i      i i i i iii  i i i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots6olcott
14 Apr13:22 i      i i i i iii  i i i +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots4dbush
14 Apr23:53 i      i i i i iii  i i i `- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots1Richard Damon
14 Apr03:28 i      i i i i iii  i i +- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots1Richard Damon
14 Apr10:25 i      i i i i iii  i i `* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots62joes
14 Apr10:29 i      i i i i iii  i `* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) --- mindless robots3joes
13 Apr21:46 i      i i i i iii  +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)4Fred. Zwarts
14 Apr00:08 i      i i i i iii  `- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Richard Damon
12 Apr 25 i      i i i i ii`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)4Mikko
13 Apr20:46 i      i i i i i`* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)3olcott
11 Apr 25 i      i i i i `- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Fred. Zwarts
10 Apr 25 i      i i i +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)4Fred. Zwarts
13 Apr10:18 i      i i i `* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)9joes
10 Apr 25 i      i i `- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Richard Damon
9 Apr 25 i      i `- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Richard Damon
8 Apr 25 i      +* Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)5Mikko
8 Apr 25 i      `- Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem)1Richard Damon
5 Apr 25 `* Proving the: Simulating termination analyzer Principle5olcott

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