Re: Functions computed by Turing Machines MUST apply finite string transformations to inputs +++

Liste des GroupesRevenir à theory 
Sujet : Re: Functions computed by Turing Machines MUST apply finite string transformations to inputs +++
De : rjh (at) *nospam* cpax.org.uk (Richard Heathfield)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 04. May 2025, 20:01:17
Autres entêtes
Organisation : Fix this later
Message-ID : <vv8dhv$2kjgk$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 04/05/2025 18:30, olcott wrote:
On 5/4/2025 11:21 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
On 04/05/2025 17:06, olcott wrote:
>
<snip>
>
They simply guess that because DD(DD) halts that
DD correctly simulated by HHH must also halt.
>
It's not a guess. If direct execution halts, so must the simulation.
 
<snip>
 Maybe you are confused between halting (reaching
a final halt state and terminating normally)
with stopping running for any reason such as
an aborted emulation. *THEY ARE NOT THE SAME*
Maybe you are confused between equality and inequality.
If DD halts when directly executed, then a correct simulation of DD must also halt. If it fails to do so (no matter for what reason), it is not a correct simulation.
Now, let's take a different angle. You could rationally claim that the simulation doesn't *need* to be correct, provided only that your decider makes the right decision about DD's halting behaviour. You've already established that DD halts when directly executed, so you just need to ensure that your decider reports 'halts' when passed DD as its parameter. How hard could it be?
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Date Sujet#  Auteur
21 Apr 25 * Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error450Keith Thompson
22 Apr 25 +* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error442olcott
22 Apr 25 i+- Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error1Richard Damon
25 Apr 25 i`* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error440olcott
25 Apr 25 i +* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error195Richard Damon
25 Apr 25 i i`* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error194olcott
25 Apr 25 i i +* Re: Refutation of Turing’s 1936 Halting Problem Proof Based on Self-Referential Conflation as a Category (Type) Error192joes
26 Apr 25 i i i`* Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs191olcott
26 Apr 25 i i i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1dbush
26 Apr 25 i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs188joes
26 Apr 25 i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs187olcott
26 Apr 25 i i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs185Fred. Zwarts
26 Apr 25 i i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs184olcott
26 Apr 25 i i i i i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1dbush
26 Apr 25 i i i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs181Richard Damon
26 Apr 25 i i i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs180olcott
26 Apr 25 i i i i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs172dbush
26 Apr 25 i i i i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs171olcott
26 Apr 25 i i i i i i i `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs170dbush
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i  `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs169olcott
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs137dbush
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs136olcott
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs134dbush
27 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i i+* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs132olcott
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28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i iii`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs4olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i iii +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1joes
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i iii +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i iii `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii+- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs125Fred. Zwarts
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs124Richard Heathfield
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii  `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs123olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs15dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs14olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs11dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs10olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs7dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs6olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs4dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs3olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i i i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1dbush
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Fred. Zwarts
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Damon
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs2Richard Damon
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i  `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1Richard Heathfield
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs1joes
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs104Richard Heathfield
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs103olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs14dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++13olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++12dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i  `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++11olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i   `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++10dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i    `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++9olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i     +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++2dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i     i`- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++1Richard Heathfield
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i     +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++1Fred. Zwarts
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i     `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++5Richard Heathfield
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i      `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++4olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i       +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++1dbush
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i       +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++1Richard Heathfield
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i       `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs +++1joes
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions DON'T apply finite string transformations to inputs2Alan Mackenzie
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i i`- Re: Turing Machine computable functions DON'T apply finite string transformations to inputs1olcott
28 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs86Richard Heathfield
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i  `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT85olcott
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT7dbush
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT6olcott
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Fred. Zwarts
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Heathfield
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Damon
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT2dbush
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i  `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1dbush
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT65Richard Heathfield
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT64olcott
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT48Richard Heathfield
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT47olcott
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT45Richard Heathfield
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT44olcott
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT42Richard Heathfield
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT41olcott
29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT39Richard Heathfield
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT38olcott
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT35Richard Heathfield
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i i+* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT15olcott
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i ii+- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Heathfield
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i ii+- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1dbush
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i ii+* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT11Keith Thompson
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT10olcott
30 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT9Keith Thompson
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii  +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT5olcott
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii  i`* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT4Keith Thompson
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii  i `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT3olcott
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii  i  +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1dbush
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii  i  `- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1Richard Damon
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii  `* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT3olcott
1 May 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i i i i i iii   +- Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT1dbush
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29 Apr 25 i i i i i i i   i ii   i   i +* Re: Turing Machine computable functions apply finite string transformations to inputs VERIFIED FACT14Fred. Zwarts
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