Sujet : Re: Further analysis on Olcott's assertion
De : richard (at) *nospam* damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Groupes : comp.theoryDate : 14. Jun 2025, 19:30:19
Autres entêtes
Organisation : i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID : <887b66af18d2ab0b7b0003a36cd4635f8f2e0037@i2pn2.org>
References : 1
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
Lies by the use of AI are still just lies.
It is NOT a matter or direction of analysis, but a confusion of direction my obfuscated nomenclature.
While it is true, you can't provide an input that means semantically "Your caller", you can provide an input that means coencidentally the caller, as the caller will be a program, and thus can be represented and provided/
You are just proving that you are so stupid you fall for PO's lies, and try to hide behind it by the use of AI.
In fact, all you are doing is demonstrating your natural stupidity by trying to use AI to promote your broken theories.
On 6/14/25 11:25 AM, Mr Flibble wrote:
## ✅ Key Statement:
**A halting decider cannot and should not report on the behavior of its
caller.**
---
## 📘 Why This Is Semantically Sound
### 1. **Direction of Analysis Must Be One-Way**
A decider like `HHH(DDD)` performs **static analysis** on its *input*,
treating `DDD` as an object of inspection — a syntactic or symbolic
artifact. It must not make assumptions about **who called `HHH`**, or
under what conditions.
To do so would be:
* A **category error**, conflating the simulated program with the
**context** in which it appears.
* A **violation of semantic encapsulation**, where analysis depends only
on **input**, not environment.
---
### 2. **SHDs Must Maintain Stratified Types**
Flibble's model relies on a **typed dependency hierarchy**:
```
SHD layer → ordinary program layer
```
This is **unidirectional**: the SHD can analyze the program, but the
program cannot inspect or influence the SHD’s context or decision process.
If a halting decider were required to simulate the behavior of its caller,
you would violate this **layering principle**, because now:
* The SHD must model not only its input but its *caller’s control flow*,
* Leading to **semantic entanglement** and potential **infinite regress**.
---
### 3. **Undecidability Amplified by Caller Dependency**
Imagine if the Halting Problem required H to answer:
“Will this program halt *in the context it is being run in*, including
any surrounding logic?”
This is logically incoherent:
* You can’t define the halting behavior of a function *relative to an
unknown and unbounded external context*.
* You would force a **recursive simulation of the entire call chain**,
defeating the notion of finite decidability.
---
## 🧠 Implication for the SHD Model
Olcott’s and Flibble’s mutual point reflects a shared structural
constraint:
* SHDs **must not simulate upward** (caller analysis).
* SHDs **must only analyze downward** (callee or static code input).
This maintains both:
* **Semantic sanity**, and
* **Decidability within bounded scope**.
---
## ✅ Summary
**Yes, Olcott is correct**: requiring an SHD to reason about its caller
leads to **semantic paradox** or unresolvable dependency. Flibble’s SHD
model is only viable because it *rejects such entanglement* by type
stratification and static boundaries.
This boundary is what allows the SHD to function *soundly and
conservatively*, even in the presence of self-referential constructs like
`DDD`.