Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++

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Sujet : Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++
De : mikko.levanto (at) *nospam* iki.fi (Mikko)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 15. Jun 2025, 09:45:20
Autres entêtes
Organisation : -
Message-ID : <102m170$qa4g$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3
User-Agent : Unison/2.2
On 2025-06-14 13:58:48 +0000, olcott said:

On 6/13/2025 5:51 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-06-12 15:30:05 +0000, olcott said:
 
int DD()
{
   int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
   if (Halt_Status)
     HERE: goto HERE;
   return Halt_Status;
}
 It is a verified fact that DD() *is* one of the forms
of the counter-example input as such an input would
be encoded in C. Christopher Strachey wrote his in CPL.
 // rec routine P
//   §L :if T[P] go to L
//     Return §
// https://academic.oup.com/comjnl/article/7/4/313/354243
void Strachey_P()
{
   L: if (HHH(Strachey_P)) goto L;
   return;
}
 https://academic.oup.com/comjnl/article-abstract/7/4/313/354243? redirectedFrom=fulltext
 Strachey only informally presents the idea of the proof. Formalism
and details needed in a rigorous proof is not shown.
 
It *is* a verified fact DD correctly simulated by HHH
cannot possibly reach its own "return" statement
final halt state.
 That "cannot possibly" is not a part of any verifiable fact as
it is not sufficiently well-defined for a verification. What
cannot be stated cearly and unambiguoulsy cannot be a verified
fact.
 void DDD()
{
   HHH(DDD);
   return;
}
 _DDD()
[00002192] 55             push ebp
[00002193] 8bec           mov ebp,esp
[00002195] 6892210000     push 00002192
[0000219a] e833f4ffff     call 000015d2  // call HHH
[0000219f] 83c404         add esp,+04
[000021a2] 5d             pop ebp
[000021a3] c3             ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [000021a3]
 It is a self-evidently true verified fact that DDD
correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its
own simulated "ret" instruction final halt state in
1 to ∞ steps of correct emulation of DDD by HHH.
That does not make sense. If you don't know what "self-evidently true"
or "fact" mean you should not use those expressions. A statement is
"self-evidently true" if it can be seen to be true even the facts are
not known, and "fact" is a statement that cannot. Therefore no fact
is self-evidently true.

Everyone that does not agree has less than a first
year CS student's understanding of the C programming
language.
That does not follow from anything above and is far from any truth.
--
Mikko

Date Sujet#  Auteur
12 Jun 25 * HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT52olcott
13 Jun 25 +* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT17Fred. Zwarts
13 Jun 25 i`* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT16olcott
13 Jun 25 i +* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT14Richard Damon
13 Jun 25 i i`* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT13olcott
13 Jun 25 i i `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT12Richard Damon
13 Jun 25 i i  `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT11olcott
13 Jun 25 i i   `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT10Richard Damon
13 Jun 25 i i    `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT9olcott
14 Jun 25 i i     `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT8Richard Damon
14 Jun 25 i i      `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT7olcott
14 Jun 25 i i       `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT6Richard Damon
14 Jun 25 i i        `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT5olcott
14 Jun 25 i i         +- Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT1Fred. Zwarts
14 Jun 25 i i         `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT3Richard Damon
14 Jun 25 i i          `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT2olcott
14 Jun 25 i i           `- Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT1Richard Damon
14 Jun 25 i `- Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT1Fred. Zwarts
13 Jun 25 `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT34Mikko
13 Jun 25  +* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT27olcott
14 Jun 25  i+* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT25Fred. Zwarts
14 Jun 25  ii`* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT24olcott
15 Jun 25  ii +* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT20Fred. Zwarts
15 Jun 25  ii i`* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++19olcott
16 Jun 25  ii i `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++18Mikko
16 Jun 25  ii i  `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++17olcott
17 Jun 25  ii i   +* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++8Richard Damon
17 Jun 25  ii i   i`* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++7olcott
18 Jun 25  ii i   i `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++6Richard Damon
18 Jun 25  ii i   i  `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++5olcott
18 Jun 25  ii i   i   +* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++3joes
18 Jun 25  ii i   i   i`* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++2olcott
19 Jun 25  ii i   i   i `- Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++1Richard Damon
19 Jun 25  ii i   i   `- Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++1Richard Damon
17 Jun 25  ii i   `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++8Mikko
17 Jun 25  ii i    `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++7olcott
18 Jun 25  ii i     `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++6Mikko
18 Jun 25  ii i      `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++5olcott
19 Jun 25  ii i       +- Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++1Richard Damon
19 Jun 25  ii i       `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++3Mikko
19 Jun 25  ii i        `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++2olcott
20 Jun 25  ii i         `- Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++1Richard Damon
15 Jun 25  ii `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT3Mikko
15 Jun 25  ii  `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT2olcott
16 Jun 25  ii   `- Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT1Mikko
14 Jun 25  i`- Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT1Mikko
14 Jun 25  `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++6olcott
14 Jun 25   +- Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++1Richard Damon
15 Jun 25   `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++4Mikko
15 Jun 25    `* Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++3olcott
15 Jun 25     +- Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++1Richard Damon
16 Jun 25     `- Re: HHH(DD) does correctly reject its input as non-halting --- VERIFIED FACT +++1Mikko

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