Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller

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Sujet : Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller
De : noreply (at) *nospam* example.org (joes)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 09. Jul 2025, 16:42:56
Autres entêtes
Organisation : i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID : <c2e87dfea1b14e36806a89cbdc676fdd7b5345f3@i2pn2.org>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
User-Agent : Pan/0.145 (Duplicitous mercenary valetism; d7e168a git.gnome.org/pan2)
Am Wed, 09 Jul 2025 09:06:42 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 7/9/2025 8:37 AM, joes wrote:
Am Wed, 09 Jul 2025 08:02:16 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 7/9/2025 3:58 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
Op 08.jul.2025 om 17:17 schreef olcott:
On 7/8/2025 6:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 7/7/25 10:52 PM, olcott wrote:
On 7/7/2025 9:24 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
 
An actual rebuttal requires proving that Turing machines can take
directly executing Turing machines (that are not finite string
encodings) as inputs.
Shut it. Nobody is advancing that view.
Thank you for your understanding.

*If you have enough knowledge then that is self evident*
All Turing machine deciders only compute the mapping from their actual
inputs. This entails that they never compute any mapping from
non-inputs.
It matters more what they map it to, i.e. which mapping they compute.
HHH does not compute the halting function.
It is a matter of verified fact that HHH does correctly determine that
DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own emulated
final halt state.
Yes. That is not the halting function. I have another program here that
(tautologically) determines that it cannot simulate ANY code (according
to x86 semantics) to a halting state - by simulating zero steps :-)
That tells me nothing about whether the input halts when executed.

How can your beloved Aprove even say anything about its inputs?

abort and stop running *IS NOT THE SAME THING AS*
abort and halt That you keep ignoring this is not my mistake.
How could HHH abort and not halt?
None of the code in HHH can possibly help DDD correctly emulated by HHH
to reach its own emulated final halt state.
The abort could, if you hadn't botched it with static variables.

but HHH is unable to reach that part. This failure of HHH does not
make the specification any different. It only shows that this
simulating decider is not the right tool for this input.
 
The behavior that the input to HHH(DDD) actually specifies is the only
behavior that any decider can possibly report on.
That anyone believes that HHH is required to report on the behavior of a
non-input merely proves a lack of sufficient understanding of how Turing
machine deciders work.
Yes, what a processor does - turning code into behaviour - is clearly
uncomputable.

--
Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
3 Jun 25 * My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller220olcott
4 Jun 25 +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller157dbush
4 Jun 25 i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller156olcott
4 Jun 25 i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller154dbush
4 Jun 25 i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller153olcott
4 Jun 25 i i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller152dbush
4 Jun 25 i i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller151olcott
4 Jun 25 i i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller150dbush
4 Jul 25 i i    `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller149olcott
4 Jul 25 i i     `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller148Richard Damon
4 Jul 25 i i      +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller137olcott
5 Jul 25 i i      i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller136Richard Damon
5 Jul 25 i i      i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller135olcott
6 Jul01:44 i i      i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller134Richard Damon
6 Jul04:02 i i      i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller133Richard Damon
6 Jul05:34 i i      i    `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller132olcott
6 Jul10:32 i i      i     +- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Fred. Zwarts
6 Jul12:50 i i      i     `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller130Richard Damon
6 Jul16:19 i i      i      `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller129olcott
6 Jul18:00 i i      i       `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller128Richard Damon
6 Jul21:06 i i      i        `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller127olcott
7 Jul03:09 i i      i         +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller125Richard Damon
7 Jul04:12 i i      i         i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller124olcott
7 Jul08:36 i i      i         i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller72Fred. Zwarts
7 Jul14:23 i i      i         i i+* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller11olcott
8 Jul09:10 i i      i         i ii`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller10Fred. Zwarts
8 Jul15:59 i i      i         i ii `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller9olcott
9 Jul10:58 i i      i         i ii  +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller7Fred. Zwarts
9 Jul14:46 i i      i         i ii  i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller6olcott
10 Jul12:17 i i      i         i ii  i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller4Fred. Zwarts
10 Jul15:46 i i      i         i ii  i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3olcott
11 Jul10:02 i i      i         i ii  i i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2Fred. Zwarts
11 Jul22:17 i i      i         i ii  i i  `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1olcott
10 Jul12:41 i i      i         i ii  i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
9 Jul12:32 i i      i         i ii  `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
7 Jul19:38 i i      i         i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller60olcott
7 Jul23:41 i i      i         i i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller58Richard Damon
8 Jul00:52 i i      i         i i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller57olcott
8 Jul03:18 i i      i         i i i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller56Richard Damon
8 Jul03:38 i i      i         i i i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller55olcott
8 Jul08:15 i i      i         i i i   +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller9joes
8 Jul15:14 i i      i         i i i   i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller8olcott
8 Jul17:10 i i      i         i i i   i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller6joes
8 Jul17:22 i i      i         i i i   i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller5olcott
8 Jul18:44 i i      i         i i i   i i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3joes
8 Jul19:21 i i      i         i i i   i i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
9 Jul12:38 i i      i         i i i   i i i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
9 Jul12:36 i i      i         i i i   i i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
9 Jul12:34 i i      i         i i i   i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
8 Jul12:13 i i      i         i i i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller45Richard Damon
8 Jul16:08 i i      i         i i i    `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller44olcott
8 Jul17:07 i i      i         i i i     +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller40joes
8 Jul17:19 i i      i         i i i     i+* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
8 Jul23:33 i i      i         i i i     ii`- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
8 Jul20:01 i i      i         i i i     i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller37Mike Terry
8 Jul20:49 i i      i         i i i     i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller36olcott
9 Jul02:30 i i      i         i i i     i  +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
9 Jul12:48 i i      i         i i i     i  i`- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
9 Jul10:09 i i      i         i i i     i  +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller10Fred. Zwarts
9 Jul14:35 i i      i         i i i     i  i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller9olcott
10 Jul02:39 i i      i         i i i     i  i +- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
10 Jul12:08 i i      i         i i i     i  i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller7Fred. Zwarts
10 Jul15:43 i i      i         i i i     i  i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller6olcott
11 Jul09:59 i i      i         i i i     i  i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller5Fred. Zwarts
11 Jul22:13 i i      i         i i i     i  i    `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller4olcott
12 Jul11:52 i i      i         i i i     i  i     `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3joes
12 Jul16:16 i i      i         i i i     i  i      `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
13 Jul00:27 i i      i         i i i     i  i       `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
9 Jul12:44 i i      i         i i i     i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller23Richard Damon
9 Jul14:55 i i      i         i i i     i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike22olcott
10 Jul02:49 i i      i         i i i     i    `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike21Richard Damon
10 Jul03:50 i i      i         i i i     i     `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike20olcott
10 Jul12:35 i i      i         i i i     i      `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike19Richard Damon
10 Jul14:24 i i      i         i i i     i       `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike18olcott
11 Jul01:04 i i      i         i i i     i        `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike17Richard Damon
11 Jul01:27 i i      i         i i i     i         `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike16olcott
11 Jul03:10 i i      i         i i i     i          `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike15Richard Damon
11 Jul03:33 i i      i         i i i     i           `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike14olcott
11 Jul09:55 i i      i         i i i     i            +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike10Fred. Zwarts
11 Jul15:27 i i      i         i i i     i            i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike9olcott
11 Jul15:31 i i      i         i i i     i            i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike7Fred. Zwarts
11 Jul18:50 i i      i         i i i     i            i i+* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike4olcott
12 Jul00:46 i i      i         i i i     i            i ii+- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike1Richard Damon
12 Jul09:22 i i      i         i i i     i            i ii`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike2Fred. Zwarts
12 Jul16:34 i i      i         i i i     i            i ii `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike1olcott
11 Jul22:27 i i      i         i i i     i            i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike2olcott
12 Jul00:53 i i      i         i i i     i            i i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike1Richard Damon
12 Jul00:41 i i      i         i i i     i            i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike1Richard Damon
11 Jul14:42 i i      i         i i i     i            `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike3Richard Damon
11 Jul15:30 i i      i         i i i     i             `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike2olcott
12 Jul00:55 i i      i         i i i     i              `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike1Richard Damon
8 Jul23:31 i i      i         i i i     `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3Richard Damon
8 Jul23:51 i i      i         i i i      `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
9 Jul12:51 i i      i         i i i       `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
8 Jul09:17 i i      i         i i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Fred. Zwarts
7 Jul09:37 i i      i         i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller14Mikko
7 Jul15:15 i i      i         i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller13olcott
7 Jul23:45 i i      i         i i +- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
8 Jul08:44 i i      i         i i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller11Mikko
8 Jul15:21 i i      i         i i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller10olcott
9 Jul09:22 i i      i         i i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller9Mikko
7 Jul12:19 i i      i         i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller37Richard Damon
7 Jul09:34 i i      i         `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Mikko
4 Jul 25 i i      +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller9olcott
5 Jul 25 i i      `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1olcott
4 Jun 25 i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
4 Jun 25 +- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
4 Jun 25 `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller61Mikko

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