Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory

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Sujet : Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory
De : polcott333 (at) *nospam* gmail.com (olcott)
Groupes : comp.theory
Date : 15. Oct 2025, 22:00:36
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <10cp21m$3uske$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 10/15/2025 3:47 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
On 2025-10-15, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
Please think this all the way through without making any guesses.
>
Simulating Termination Analyzer HHH correctly simulates its input until:
 This sentence must end with nothing other than "until that input terminates".
 Otherwise the simulation is not complete and correct.
 
(a) Detects a non-terminating behavior pattern:
      abort simulation and return 0.
(b) Simulated input reaches its simulated "return" statement:
      return 1.
(c) If HHH must abort its simulation to prevent its own non-termination
      then HHH is correct to abort this simulation and return 0.
 HHH is correct to abort the simulation because if it doesn't do that,
it will not terminate. All halting deciders that incorporate simulation
as a tool must break out of simulation at some point in order not to be
tripped up by inputs that fail to terminate.
 
Great I just tested this and ChatGPT 5.0 and Gemini get
the wrong answer without (c). ChatGPT 4.0, Claude AI
and Grok all got this same answer without (c) and
without being told not to guess.

Without breaking out of the simulation, it would not be possible
for HHH(Infinite_Loop) or HHH(Infinite_Recursion) to decide correctly
that the return value should be zero.
 
Yes.

However, nothing is effective against the diagonal input.
 
Unless we go be the behavior that the semantics
of the specification language specifies as the
ultimate judge.

What value should HHH(DD) correctly return?
 
Not within the stipulated axioms when (c) is invoked.

The set of possible solutions is the empty set.
     3x +  y = 5
    6x + 2y = 3
 What pairs <x, y> satisfy these equations?
 HHH(DD) not having a solution is no different from simultaneous
equations in n variables not having a solution.
 Elementary school children can work with these.
 
Its deeper than that. See my other post.
--
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

Date Sujet#  Auteur
15 Oct 25 * The halting problem is self-contradictory126olcott
15 Oct 25 +* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory62Kaz Kylheku
15 Oct 25 i+* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory53olcott
15 Oct 25 ii+* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory51Kaz Kylheku
15 Oct 25 iii+* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory31olcott
15 Oct 25 iiii`* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory30Kaz Kylheku
15 Oct 25 iiii `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory29olcott
15 Oct 25 iiii  `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory28Kaz Kylheku
15 Oct 25 iiii   +* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory12olcott
15 Oct 25 iiii   i+* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory10Alan Mackenzie
15 Oct 25 iiii   ii`* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory9olcott
15 Oct 25 iiii   ii +* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory6Alan Mackenzie
15 Oct 25 iiii   ii i+* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory4olcott
16 Oct 25 iiii   ii ii`* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory3Kaz Kylheku
16 Oct 25 iiii   ii ii +- Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory1Richard Heathfield
16 Oct 25 iiii   ii ii `- The Halting Problem is Incoherent1olcott
15 Oct 25 iiii   ii i`- The Halting Problem is Incoherent1olcott
15 Oct 25 iiii   ii `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory2Kaz Kylheku
15 Oct 25 iiii   ii  `- The Halting Problem is Incoherent1olcott
15 Oct 25 iiii   i`- Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory1Kaz Kylheku
15 Oct 25 iiii   `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory15olcott
15 Oct 25 iiii    +- Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory1Chris M. Thomasson
15 Oct 25 iiii    `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory13Kaz Kylheku
15 Oct 25 iiii     `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory12olcott
15 Oct 25 iiii      `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory11olcott
16 Oct 25 iiii       `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory10Kaz Kylheku
16 Oct 25 iiii        `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory9olcott
16 Oct 25 iiii         `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory8olcott
16 Oct 25 iiii          +* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory5Alan Mackenzie
16 Oct 25 iiii          i+- Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory1olcott
16 Oct 25 iiii          i`* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory3Richard Heathfield
16 Oct 25 iiii          i +- Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory1olcott
16 Oct 25 iiii          i `- Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory1Kaz Kylheku
16 Oct 25 iiii          `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory2Kaz Kylheku
16 Oct 25 iiii           `- The Halting Problem is Incoherent1olcott
15 Oct 25 iii+* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory18Dan Cross
15 Oct 25 iiii`* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory17olcott
15 Oct 25 iiii +- Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory1tTh
15 Oct 25 iiii +- Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory1Kaz Kylheku
16 Oct 25 iiii `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory -- application to c/c++14Mikko
16 Oct 25 iiii  `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory -- application to c/c++13olcott
16 Oct 25 iiii   +- Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory -- application to c/c++1Chris M. Thomasson
17 Oct 25 iiii   `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory -- application to c/c++11Mikko
17 Oct 25 iiii    `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory -- application to c/c++10olcott
18 Oct 25 iiii     `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory -- application to c/c++9Mikko
18 Oct 25 iiii      `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory -- application to c/c++8olcott
19 Oct 25 iiii       `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory -- application to c/c++7Mikko
19 Oct 25 iiii        +* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory -- application to c/c++3Richard Heathfield
19 Oct 25 iiii        i`* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory -- application to c/c++2Mikko
19 Oct 25 iiii        i `- Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory -- application to c/c++1Richard Heathfield
19 Oct 25 iiii        +- Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory -- application to c/c++1olcott
19 Oct 25 iiii        `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory -- application to c/c++2Chris M. Thomasson
19 Oct 25 iiii         `- Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory -- application to c/c++1Chris M. Thomasson
15 Oct 25 iii`- Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory1olcott
16 Oct 25 ii`- Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory1Tristan Wibberley
15 Oct 25 i`* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory8Tristan Wibberley
15 Oct 25 i `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory7Kaz Kylheku
16 Oct 25 i  +* The Halting Problem is Incoherent4olcott
16 Oct 25 i  i+- Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent1Python
16 Oct 25 i  i`* Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent2Tristan Wibberley
16 Oct 25 i  i `- Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent1olcott
16 Oct 25 i  `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory2Tristan Wibberley
16 Oct 25 i   `- Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory1olcott
15 Oct 25 `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory63Mikko
15 Oct 25  +* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory61olcott
16 Oct 25  i`* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory60Mikko
16 Oct 25  i `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory59olcott
16 Oct 25  i  +* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory4Kaz Kylheku
16 Oct 25  i  i`* The halting problem incoherent3olcott
17 Oct 25  i  i `* Re: The halting problem incoherent2Mikko
17 Oct 25  i  i  `- Re: The halting problem incoherent1olcott
17 Oct 25  i  `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory54Mikko
17 Oct 25  i   `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory53olcott
19 Oct 25  i    `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory52Mikko
19 Oct 25  i     `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory51olcott
19 Oct 25  i      +* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory45joes
20 Oct 25  i      i`* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory44olcott
20 Oct 25  i      i `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory43joes
20 Oct 25  i      i  `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory42olcott
20 Oct 25  i      i   `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory41joes
20 Oct 25  i      i    `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory40olcott
20 Oct 25  i      i     `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory39joes
20 Oct 25  i      i      `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory38olcott
20 Oct 25  i      i       +* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory36joes
20 Oct 25  i      i       i`* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory35olcott
20 Oct 25  i      i       i `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory34joes
20 Oct 25  i      i       i  `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory33olcott
20 Oct 25  i      i       i   `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory32olcott
20 Oct 25  i      i       i    +- Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory1Chris M. Thomasson
21 Oct 25  i      i       i    `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory30Kaz Kylheku
21 Oct 25  i      i       i     `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory29olcott
21 Oct 25  i      i       i      `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory28Kaz Kylheku
21 Oct 25  i      i       i       +* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory24olcott
21 Oct 25  i      i       i       i`* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory23Kaz Kylheku
21 Oct 25  i      i       i       i `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory22olcott
21 Oct 25  i      i       i       i  `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory21Kaz Kylheku
21 Oct 25  i      i       i       i   `* The Halting Problem is Incoherent20olcott
21 Oct 25  i      i       i       i    +* Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent15dbush
21 Oct 25  i      i       i       i    i+* Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent10olcott
21 Oct 25  i      i       i       i    ii`* Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent9dbush
21 Oct 25  i      i       i       i    ii `* Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent8olcott
23 Oct 25  i      i       i       i    i`* Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent4olcott
21 Oct 25  i      i       i       i    `* Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent4Kaz Kylheku
21 Oct 25  i      i       i       `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory3olcott
20 Oct 25  i      i       `- Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory1Kaz Kylheku
20 Oct 25  i      `* Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory5Mikko
15 Oct 25  `- Re: The halting problem is self-contradictory1Chris M. Thomasson

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