On 10/31/2025 6:23 AM, Mikko wrote:There is only one D above.On 2025-10-30 13:08:12 +0000, olcott said:D simulated by H Not D executed from main()
On 10/30/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:This is possible except the word "correctly". But that is not theOn 2025-10-29 16:41:32 +0000, olcott said:D simulated by H according to the semantics
On 10/29/2025 5:35 AM, Mikko wrote:And what happens if it sees?On 2025-10-28 09:41:56 +0000, joes said:int D()
Am Sun, 26 Oct 2025 09:56:25 -0500 schrieb olcott:To determine that DD halts is not merely possible but easy. Just simulateOn 10/14/2022 7:44 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:HHH does abort though and returns 1 to DD.I don't think that is the shell game. PO really /has/ an H (it's
trivial to do for this one case) that correctly determines that P(P)
*would* never stop running *unless* aborted. He knows and accepts that
P(P) actually does stop. The wrong answer is justified by what would
happen if H (and hence a different P) where not what they actually are.
*This is Claude AI summarizing my rebuttal of Ben's words*The philosophical point: A Turing machine decider should only beAnd you think it’s impossible to programmatically determine that DD halts?
expected to report on properties determinable from its input. When the
halting problem construction makes the "actual behavior"
dependent on the decider's output, it's asking the decider to report on
something outside its input - hence, a category error.
*Every* single program is decidable.
it until it halts (which doesn't take a long time) and there it is. The
same with any other camputaion that halts, though the time to find out
may be linger.
{
int Halt_Status = H(D);
if (Halt_Status)
HERE: goto HERE;
return Halt_Status;
}
H simulates D
that calls H(D) to simulate D
that calls H(D) to simulate D
that calls H(D) to simulate D
that calls H(D) to simulate D
that calls H(D) to simulate D
until H sees this repeating pattern.
of the C programming language until H correctly
determines that its simulated D cannot possibly
reach its own simulated "return" statement
correctly rejects D on this basis not some other
basis.
last thing that happens. Then H returns zero to its caller, which
in this case is D, and D returns the zero to the program that
called D. Because D halts the rejection by H is not correct, and
therefore we can observe that H is not a halt decider.
D simulated by H Not D executed from main()
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--
Mikko
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