Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D)

On 6/14/2024 8:38 PM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 6/14/24 8:34 PM, olcott wrote:

On 6/14/2024 6:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 6/14/24 9:15 AM, olcott wrote:

On 6/14/2024 6:39 AM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 6/14/24 12:13 AM, olcott wrote:

>
No it is more than that.
H cannot even be asked the question:
Does D(D) halt?

>
No, you just don't understand the proper meaning of "ask" when applied to a deterministic entity.
>

>
When H and D have a pathological relationship to each
other then H(D,D) is not being asked about the behavior
of D(D). H1(D,D) has no such pathological relationship
thus D correctly simulated by H1 is the behavior of D(D).

>
OF course it is. The nature of the input doesn't affet the form of the question that H is supposed to answer.
>

>
The textbook asks the question.
The data cannot possibly do that.
>

 But the data doesn't need to do it, as the program specifictions define it.
 

Did you know that the code itself cannot read these specifications?
The specifications say {draw a square circle}, the code says huh?

Now, if H was supposed to be a "Universal Problem Decider", then we

I don't have time for an infinite conversation.
H is ONLY defined to be a D decider.

would need to somehow "encode" the goal of H determining that a correct (and complete) simulation of its input would need to reach a final state, but I see no issue with defining a way to encode that.
 

You already said that H cannot possibly map its
input to the behavior of D(D).

 Right, it is impossible for H to itself compute that behavior and give an answer.
 

NO !!! It is impossible for anyone or anything to provide
a correct answer to a question THAT THEY ARE NOT BEING ASKED.

That doesn't mean we can't encode the question.
 

Give it your best shot, it must be encoded in C.

>
We need to stay focused on this one single point until you
fully get it. Unlike the other two respondents you do have
the capacity to understand this.
>
You keep expecting H to read your computer science
textbooks.
>

 No, I expect its PROGRAMMER to have done that, which clearly you haven't done.
 

The spec says {CAD system that draws square circles}
The programmer say WTF!

Programs don't read their requirements, the perform the actions they were programmed to do,

There is no way to encode H to even see the behavior of D(D)
when H and D have the pathological relationship.
That is the dumbed down version of H cannot map its finite
string x86 machine code to the behavior of D(D).

and if the program is correct, it will get the right answer. If it doesn't get the right answer, then the programmer erred in saying it meet the requirements.
 

Sure make a CAD system that draws square circles or you are fired.
You are failing to understand the notion of logically
impossible.
--
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer