Sujet : Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten
De : richard (at) *nospam* damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Groupes : comp.theory sci.logicDate : 14. Jun 2024, 04:35:56
Autres entêtes
Organisation : i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID : <v4gaac$3tn6q$4@i2pn2.org>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 6/13/24 11:08 AM, olcott wrote:
On 6/13/2024 9:35 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
[ Followup-To: set ]
>
In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
On 6/13/2024 3:49 AM, joes wrote:
Am Wed, 12 Jun 2024 18:25:14 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 6/12/2024 6:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 6/12/24 12:57 PM, olcott wrote:
On 6/12/2024 6:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>
[ .... ]
>
As I pointed out, there ARE finite-string transformations that do it,
that is a UTM.
>
Why, because the claim isn't about the simulate by H, but the behavior
of the difectly executed D(D), or its simulation by a UTM.
H(D,D) must compute the mapping from its finite string input
transforming [it] into the behavior that it
specifies using finite string transformation rules.
*H DOES NOT simply guess what you think it should do and do that*
It has a *specification* it must fulfill.
>
>
The specification is only in your own mind ....
>
The specification is "calculate whether a particular program with a
particular input halts".
>
Yes that <is> what the textbooks say, none-the-less halt deciders
really cannot read textbooks. Instead they go by the behavior that
their input specifies.
And apparently YOU can't either.
All halt deciders compute the mapping from their inputs...
And to be a xxxx decider, they must compute the xxxx mapping.
Since Halting is the mapping of the program described by the input to where
When we actually compute the mapping from the x86 machine language
finite string input to H(D,D) using the finite string transformation
rules specified by the semantics of the x86 programming language this
DOES NOT MAP TO THE BEHAVIOR OF D(D).
But we CAN do that. Run the program and see what it does.
When I ask anyone to show the detailed steps of the mapping from
the machine language finite string of D to the behavior of D(D)
*THEY CHANGE THE SUBJECT BECAUSE THEY ALREADY KNOW THAT I AM CORRECT*
But you have changed the subject, the ACTUAL subject is to show what the mapping should be, which we CAN get by just running the program.
You asking how H can do it is irrelevent, except to show that either it can or can not be decider by a finite decider.
It turns out it can't so it seems that the "Correct simulation of the input by H" isn't a suitable computation method for the problem.
_D()
[00000cfc](01) 55 push ebp
[00000cfd](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
[00000cff](03) 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
[00000d02](01) 50 push eax ; push D
[00000d03](03) 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
[00000d06](01) 51 push ecx ; push D
[00000d07](05) e800feffff call 00000b0c ; call H
[00000d0c](03) 83c408 add esp,+08
[00000d0f](02) 85c0 test eax,eax
[00000d11](02) 7404 jz 00000d17
[00000d13](02) 33c0 xor eax,eax
[00000d15](02) eb05 jmp 00000d1c
[00000d17](05) b801000000 mov eax,00000001
[00000d1c](01) 5d pop ebp
[00000d1d](01) c3 ret
Size in bytes:(0034) [00000d1d]
Date | Sujet | # | | Auteur |
10 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- | 373 | | olcott |
10 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- | 10 | | joes |
10 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- | 4 | | Mikko |
10 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- | 3 | | olcott |
11 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- | 2 | | Mikko |
11 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten | 1 | | olcott |
10 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- | 5 | | olcott |
10 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- | 4 | | joes |
10 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- | 3 | | olcott |
10 Jun 24 | Re: D simulated by H unproved for THREE YEARS --- | 2 | | joes |
10 Jun 24 | Re: D simulated by H unproved for THREE YEARS --- | 1 | | olcott |
10 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- | 362 | | Richard Damon |
11 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- Richard admits his error | 361 | | olcott |
11 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- Richard admits his error | 360 | | Richard Damon |
11 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- Richard admits his error | 359 | | olcott |
11 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- Richard admits his error | 358 | | Richard Damon |
11 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten | 357 | | olcott |
12 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten | 355 | | Richard Damon |
12 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten | 354 | | olcott |
12 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten | 302 | | Python |
12 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten | 301 | | olcott |
12 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten | 300 | | Richard Damon |
12 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten | 299 | | olcott |
12 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten | 298 | | Richard Damon |
12 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 297 | | olcott |
13 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 296 | | Richard Damon |
13 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 295 | | olcott |
13 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 288 | | Richard Damon |
13 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 287 | | olcott |
13 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 285 | | Richard Damon |
13 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 284 | | olcott |
13 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 283 | | Richard Damon |
13 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 282 | | olcott |
13 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 281 | | Richard Damon |
13 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 280 | | olcott |
13 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 274 | | Richard Damon |
13 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 273 | | olcott |
13 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 272 | | Richard Damon |
13 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 271 | | olcott |
13 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 270 | | Richard Damon |
13 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 269 | | olcott |
13 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 1 | | joes |
14 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 267 | | Richard Damon |
14 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 236 | | olcott |
14 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 235 | | Richard Damon |
14 Jun 24 | H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 234 | | olcott |
14 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 231 | | Richard Damon |
14 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 230 | | olcott |
14 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 229 | | Richard Damon |
14 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 228 | | olcott |
14 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 169 | | joes |
14 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 168 | | olcott |
15 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 1 | | Richard Damon |
15 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 166 | | joes |
15 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 2 | | olcott |
15 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 1 | | Richard Damon |
15 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 163 | | Mikko |
15 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 162 | | olcott |
15 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 1 | | Richard Damon |
16 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 160 | | Mikko |
16 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 159 | | olcott |
17 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 158 | | Mikko |
17 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 157 | | olcott |
18 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 156 | | Mikko |
18 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 155 | | olcott |
18 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 154 | | Mikko |
18 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 153 | | olcott |
18 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 152 | | Mikko |
18 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 151 | | olcott |
19 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 150 | | Mikko |
19 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 149 | | olcott |
20 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 148 | | Mikko |
20 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 147 | | olcott |
20 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 146 | | Mikko |
20 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 145 | | olcott |
20 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 5 | | joes |
20 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 4 | | olcott |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 3 | | Fred. Zwarts |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 2 | | olcott |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 1 | | Richard Damon |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 56 | | Richard Damon |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 55 | | olcott |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 54 | | Richard Damon |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply | 53 | | olcott |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply | 52 | | Richard Damon |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply | 51 | | olcott |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply | 50 | | Richard Damon |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply | 47 | | olcott |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply | 46 | | Richard Damon |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply | 45 | | olcott |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply | 44 | | Richard Damon |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply | 43 | | olcott |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply | 42 | | Richard Damon |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply | 41 | | olcott |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply | 40 | | Richard Damon |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply | 39 | | olcott |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply | 38 | | Richard Damon |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply | 37 | | olcott |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply | 36 | | Richard Damon |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply | 35 | | olcott |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply | 34 | | Richard Damon |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply | 2 | | olcott |
21 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 83 | | Mikko |
15 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 58 | | Richard Damon |
14 Jun 24 | Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) | 2 | | joes |
15 Jun 24 | H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V2 ---ignoring all other replies | 12 | | olcott |
15 Jun 24 | H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES | 18 | | olcott |
13 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 5 | | joes |
13 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 1 | | joes |
13 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules | 6 | | joes |
12 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten | 51 | | Richard Damon |
12 Jun 24 | Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten | 1 | | Fred. Zwarts |