Re: Ben fails to understand

On 7/4/24 1:49 PM, olcott wrote:

On 7/4/2024 12:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 7/4/24 1:36 PM, olcott wrote:

On 7/4/2024 12:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 7/4/24 1:07 PM, olcott wrote:

On 7/4/2024 11:53 AM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 7/4/24 12:23 PM, olcott wrote:

On 7/4/2024 11:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 7/4/24 12:06 PM, olcott wrote:

On 7/4/2024 11:05 AM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 7/4/24 11:40 AM, olcott wrote:

On 7/4/2024 10:14 AM, joes wrote:

Am Thu, 04 Jul 2024 09:25:29 -0500 schrieb olcott:

On 10/14/2022 7:44 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:

Python <python@invalid.org> writes:

    [comment: as D halts, the simulation is faulty, Pr. Sipser has been
     fooled by Olcott shell game confusion "pretending to simulate" and
     "correctly simulate"]

I don't think that is the shell game.  PO really /has/ an H (it's
trivial to do for this one case) that correctly determines that P(P)
*would* never stop running *unless* aborted.  He knows and accepts that
P(P) actually does stop.  The wrong answer is justified by what would
happen if H (and hence a different P) where not what they actually are.

You seem to like this quote. Do you agree with it?
>

>
<MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
     If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
     until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
     stop running unless aborted then
>
     H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
     specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
</MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
>
The first half of the quote agrees that the Sisper approved
criteria has been met, thus unless professor Sipser is wrong
H is correct to reject D as non-halting.
>

>
Nope. Since you LIE about what Professor Sipser means by the first part, you are shown to be just a stupid liar.
>

>
Ben agreed that the first part has been met therefore
the second part <is> entailed.
>

>
>
No, Ben says that if you redefine the question, and are not talking about Halting any more, you can meet your requirements.
>

>
*Ben did say that the criteria has been met*

>

>
<MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
     If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
     until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
     stop running unless aborted then
>
     H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
     specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
</MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
>

He said your ALTERED criteria had been met.
>

>
*Ben said that this criteria has been met*
     If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
     until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
     stop running unless aborted then
>
On 10/14/2022 7:44 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
 > I don't think that is the shell game.  PO really /has/ an H (it's
 > trivial to do for this one case) that correctly determines that P(P)
 > *would* never stop running *unless* aborted.
...
 > But H determines (correctly) that D would not halt if it were not
 > halted.  That much is a truism.
>

>
But Ben didn't say it was because of a "Correct Simulation".
>

>
I am not going to address your stupid lies any more.
>
Ben agreed that the above criteria has been met.
Anything and everything that even hints that this
is not true is a lie.
>

>
Beleive whatever. lies you want.
>

 It is a verified fact that Ben did agree that the criteria
have been met. That you insist upon lying about that so
that we cannot proceed to the next step that follows that
gives me no reason to continue talking to you.
 

The problem is that Ben is adopting your definitions that professor Sipser is not using.
In particular, for professor Sipser, D must be a program (a turing machine equivalent) but I think Ben is seeing that you H is being defined to take a TEMPLATE instead of a program.
Another way to look at thins is that H and P are entertwined entities and not two seperate programs in the system Ben was commenting about.
For Professor Sipser, H and D are REQUIRED to be independent entities, since that is what Computation Theory deals with.
So, the two problems are in completely different domains.