Re: Liar detector: Peter Olcott who doesn't under stand Ben's agreement

On 7/6/24 9:01 AM, olcott wrote:

On 7/6/2024 4:09 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:

Op 05.jul.2024 om 17:54 schreef olcott:

On 7/5/2024 10:48 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:

Op 05.jul.2024 om 16:05 schreef olcott:

On 7/5/2024 8:54 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:

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HHH cannot possibly correctly simulate itself.
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LIAR! I give up on you.
https://liarparadox.org/HHH(DDD)_Full_Trace.pdf

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No need to come back, because you are unable to point to any error in my reasoning.

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I conclusively proved that HHH is correctly simulating itself
simulating DDD and you simply freaking lie about it.
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Your replies are only irrelevant, or supporting my reasoning. I showed that HHH cannot possibly simulate itself correctly and your full trace supports this, as it shows that the simulating HHH is unable to reach the 'ret' of the simulated HHH.
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*Unable to reach ret IS A FREAKING CORRECT FREAKING SIMULATION*

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Unable to reach ret *is a freaking demonstration* of an incorrect simulation.
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 If it was incorrect you would have to show which
x86 instruction was simulated incorrectly. You
can't do that because it is a matter of verified
fact that none of them were simulated incorrectly.

The last one simulated. Since, it wasn't a HALT or the final return, it should have been followed by the next instruction.
Stopping, means the simulation is just a PARTIAL simulation, which means it tells nothing (by itself) of what happens later.

 

The machine code specifies that DDD simulated by HHH according
to the semantics of the x86 language cannot possibly reach the
ret instruction of DDD or its correctly simulated self.
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_DDD()
[00002172] 55               push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002173] 8bec             mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
[00002175] 6872210000       push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a] e853f4ffff       call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
[0000217f] 83c404           add esp,+04
[00002182] 5d               pop ebp
[00002183] c3               ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
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Your traces shows that HHH aborts the simulation at a point there the simulated HHH has only one cycle to go before it would abort and halt.

 All of the HHH have the same code. The outer HHH
meets its abort criteria first. It is a verified
fact that unless the outer HHH aborts then none
of them do. This violates this correct criteria

and thus, the actual correct simulation (not the partial one done by HHH, will see that the simulation of this input will also return.

 <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
     If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
     until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
     stop running unless aborted then
      H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
     specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
</MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>

And, what Professor Sipser is referring to as a "Correct Simulation" is not your PARTIAL simulation, (which is definitionally NOT correct) but a simulation that exact reproduces all the behavior of the input, which means it CAN NOT STOP its simulation until the end is reached.
Since your HHH doesn't do that, or correctly predict that such a simulation would never stop (it can't, since we just showed that such a simulation DOES halt), it was never able to use the second paragraph, so by aborting anyway, it rendered itself subject to error.

 

So, the only reason why this simulation does not reach the 'ret' of the simulated HHH, is that it is aborted prematurely.
A correct simulation by another simulator shows that this is indeed the case.

 HHH1 can wait for HHH to abort because DDD does not call HHH1.
HHH cannot wait because DDD calls HHH.

Yes, and shows that HHH was wrong.
HHH's "need" to abort to meet its decider requirements does not releive it of the responsibility to still get the right answer. It is just stuck in an impossible task. A task that is ALLOWED to be impossible, as the ultimate question being asked is "Is the mapping possible to compute?", and the answer turns out to be NO.

 

HHH cannot possible simulate *itself* correctly. This code and your trace demonstrates this. The fact that the simulation does not reach the 'ret', where other simulator can do that, demonstrates that HHH's simulation of itself is incorrect.
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The only thing you brought in against it, is a baseless repetition that you still belief that the simulation is correct.
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HHH that aborts and halts can be compared to a bear running at you to kill you:
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All other simulators will tell you that HHH aborts and halts.
All people will warn you that the bear is running at you and will kill you.
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Only when HHH simulates itself, it says: not aborting and non-halting.
The bear says about itself: I am not running and I will not kill you.
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What do you trust?

 I only trust correct reasoning. You are not using this.
 

No, we are, the problem is YOU AREN'T, but you trust your lying self anyways because you have brainwashed and gaslight yourself into believing your own lies.