Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages

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Sujet : Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages
De : ldo (at) *nospam* nz.invalid (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Groupes : comp.unix.shell comp.unix.programmer comp.lang.misc
Date : 29. Mar 2024, 23:06:58
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <uu7ahh$ghfn$5@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2
User-Agent : Pan/0.155 (Kherson; fc5a80b8)
On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 08:09:46 -0300, Johanne Fairchild wrote:

Consider looking at a shell language like a domain-specific programming
language.  A shell is a programming language made specifically for
running programs. ...  (Of course, the idea evolves and you want to
glue programs, do variable substitution et cetera.)

That’s the thing. The design for a “language made specifically for running
programs” always seems to start with the assumption that what the user
types is to be passed as literal text, unless special markers are present
to indicate that they want to “glue programs, do variable substitution et
cetera”. Notice your use of the term “variable substitution”, which is
characteristic of a shell language: in a programming language, you don’t
call it “substitution”, you call it “evaluation”.

A scripting language is a programming language made for a hypothetical
machine, not too different from a programming language made for a real
machine, one made of hardware.

In our CS classes we learned to think about “abstract machines”, and
forget the distinction between “software” and “hardware”. Instead, we
build layers of abstract machines, one on top of the other, getting more
and more specialized towards the particular class of problems we want to
solve at any particular time.

Command languages are just another such “abstract machine”, and the
scripts we write in them are another layer on top.

The layering only stops when you get to a GUI; they can’t be used to build
any further “machines” on top.

You seem to find trouble with using a programming language in a REPL.

I find REPLs annoying and inconvenient. If I want to do “scratchpad”
programming, I do it in a Jupyter notebook.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
29 Mar 24 * Command Languages Versus Programming Languages548Lawrence D'Oliveiro
29 Mar 24 +- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1candycanearter07
29 Mar 24 +* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages19Janis Papanagnou
29 Mar 24 i+* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages15Lawrence D'Oliveiro
30 Mar 24 ii`* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages14Janis Papanagnou
30 Mar 24 ii +* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages3Janis Papanagnou
30 Mar 24 ii i`* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages2Keith Thompson
30 Mar 24 ii i `- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Janis Papanagnou
30 Mar 24 ii +* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages6Lawrence D'Oliveiro
30 Mar 24 ii i+* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages3Keith Thompson
30 Mar 24 ii ii`* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
30 Mar 24 ii ii `- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Keith Thompson
30 Mar 24 ii i`* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages2Janis Papanagnou
30 Mar 24 ii i `- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
30 Mar 24 ii +* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages3Keith Thompson
30 Mar 24 ii i`* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages2Janis Papanagnou
30 Mar 24 ii i `- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Keith Thompson
31 Mar 24 ii `- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
29 Mar 24 i`* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages3Stefan Ram
30 Mar 24 i `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages2Janis Papanagnou
30 Mar 24 i  `- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
29 Mar 24 +* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages166Muttley
29 Mar 24 i+- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Josef Möllers
29 Mar 24 i+* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages9Richard Kettlewell
29 Mar 24 ii`* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages8Muttley
29 Mar 24 ii `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages7Kaz Kylheku
29 Mar 24 ii  `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages6Muttley
29 Mar 24 ii   `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages5Kaz Kylheku
30 Mar 24 ii    `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages4Muttley
30 Mar 24 ii     +- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Janis Papanagnou
30 Mar 24 ii     `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages2Kaz Kylheku
1 Apr 24 ii      `- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Muttley
29 Mar 24 i`* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages155John Ames
29 Mar 24 i +* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages153Muttley
29 Mar 24 i i+- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1John Ames
29 Mar 24 i i+* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages148Kaz Kylheku
29 Mar 24 i ii`* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages147Muttley
29 Mar 24 i ii +* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages145Kaz Kylheku
29 Mar 24 i ii i+* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages4David W. Hodgins
29 Mar 24 i ii ii+* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages2Johanne Fairchild
30 Mar 24 i ii iii`- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1David W. Hodgins
30 Mar 24 i ii ii`- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Janis Papanagnou
30 Mar 24 i ii i`* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages140Muttley
30 Mar 24 i ii i `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages139Kaz Kylheku
1 Apr 24 i ii i  `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages138Muttley
1 Apr 24 i ii i   +* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages136Johanne Fairchild
1 Apr 24 i ii i   i`* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages135Muttley
1 Apr 24 i ii i   i +- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Kaz Kylheku
2 Apr 24 i ii i   i `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages133Johanne Fairchild
2 Apr 24 i ii i   i  +* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages112ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)
2 Apr 24 i ii i   i  i+* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages110Stefan Ram
2 Apr 24 i ii i   i  ii+* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages108Stefan Ram
3 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii`* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages107Lawrence D'Oliveiro
3 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages106David Brown
3 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii  +- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
3 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii  +- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1John Ames
3 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii  `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages103Keith Thompson
3 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   +* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages98Richard Kettlewell
4 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i+- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Muttley
4 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i`* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages96Stefan Ram
5 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages95Lawrence D'Oliveiro
5 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  +* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages49Muttley
5 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i+* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages3candycanearter07
5 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  ii`* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages2Muttley
6 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  ii `- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1candycanearter07
6 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i`* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages45Lawrence D'Oliveiro
6 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages44Alan Bawden
6 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i  +* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages13Lawrence D'Oliveiro
8 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i  i`* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages12John Ames
9 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i  i `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages11Lawrence D'Oliveiro
9 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i  i  +* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages9John Ames
9 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i  i  i`* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages8Richard Kettlewell
9 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i  i  i +* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages2Janis Papanagnou
9 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i  i  i i`- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Richard Kettlewell
9 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i  i  i `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages5David Brown
9 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i  i  i  `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages4Lawrence D'Oliveiro
9 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i  i  i   `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages3David Brown
10 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i  i  i    `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages2Lawrence D'Oliveiro
10 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i  i  i     `- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Kaz Kylheku
9 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i  i  `- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Kaz Kylheku
6 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i  +* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages3Kaz Kylheku
6 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i  i`* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages2David Brown
6 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i  i `- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Muttley
6 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i  +- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1candycanearter07
6 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i  `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages26Muttley
7 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i   +* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages22Alan Bawden
8 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i   i`* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages21Muttley
8 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i   i `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages20David Brown
8 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i   i  `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages19Muttley
8 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i   i   +* Words to the wise (Was: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages)2Kenny McCormack
8 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i   i   i`- Re: Words to the wise (Was: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages)1Muttley
8 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i   i   `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages16Kaz Kylheku
8 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i   i    +* Phrases that should be banned on Usenet (Was: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages)9Kenny McCormack
9 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i   i    i`* Re: Phrases that should be banned on Usenet (Was: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages)8Janis Papanagnou
9 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i   i    i +- Re: Phrases that should be banned on Usenet (Was: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages)1D
9 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i   i    i `* Re: Phrases that should be banned on Usenet (Was: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages)6candycanearter07
9 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i   i    i  `* Re: Phrases that should be banned on Usenet (Was: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages)5Janis Papanagnou
9 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i   i    i   +- Re: Phrases that should be banned on Usenet (Was: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages)1candycanearter07
10 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i   i    i   `* Re: Phrases that should be banned on Usenet (Was: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages)3Lawrence D'Oliveiro
10 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i   i    i    +- Re: Phrases that should be banned on Usenet (Was: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages)1Chris Elvidge
10 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i   i    i    `- Re: Phrases that should be banned on Usenet (Was: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages)1candycanearter07
9 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i   i    `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages6Muttley
8 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i   +- [meta] Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Janis Papanagnou
10 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  i   `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages2Keith Thompson
5 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   i  `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages45Janis Papanagnou
3 Apr 24 i ii i   i  iii   `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages4David Brown
2 Apr 24 i ii i   i  ii`- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Kaz Kylheku
2 Apr 24 i ii i   i  i`- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Kaz Kylheku
2 Apr 24 i ii i   i  `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages20Lawrence D'Oliveiro
1 Apr 24 i ii i   `- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Lawrence D'Oliveiro
1 Apr 24 i ii `- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Andreas Eder
29 Mar 24 i i+- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Christian Weisgerber
30 Mar 24 i i`* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages2David Brown
29 Mar 24 i `- Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages1Kaz Kylheku
29 Mar 24 +* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages356Johanne Fairchild
29 Mar 24 +* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages2David Brown
30 Mar 24 `* Re: Command Languages Versus Programming Languages3Dmitry A. Kazakov

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