Re: Ben thinks the professor Sipser is wrong

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Sujet : Re: Ben thinks the professor Sipser is wrong
De : richard (at) *nospam* damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Groupes : comp.theory sci.logic
Date : 04. Jul 2024, 20:17:56
Autres entêtes
Organisation : i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID : <8bbce1bb519f205ef865a07719bf35f68170ad61@i2pn2.org>
References : 1 2 3
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 7/4/24 2:04 PM, olcott wrote:
<MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
     If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
     until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
     stop running unless aborted then
      H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
     specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
</MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
 On 10/14/2022 7:44 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
 > I don't think that is the shell game.  PO really /has/ an H (it's
 > trivial to do for this one case) that correctly determines that P(P)
 > *would* never stop running *unless* aborted.
...
 > But H determines (correctly) that D would not halt if it were not
 > halted.  That much is a truism.
 Ben clearly agrees that the above criteria have been met,
yet feels that professor Sipser was tricked into agreeing
that this means that:
     H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
     specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
 I spent two years deriving those words that Professor Sipser
agreed with. It seems to me that every software engineer would
agree that the second part is logically entailed by the first part.
You mean you WASTED two years and set a trap for your self that you fell into.
The problem is that Ben is adopting your definitions that professor Sipser is not using.
In particular, for professor Sipser, D must be a program (a turing machine equivalent) but I think Ben is seeing that you H is being defined to take a TEMPLATE instead of a program.
Another way to look at thins is that H and P are entertwined entities and not two seperate programs in the system Ben was commenting about.
For Professor Sipser, H and D are REQUIRED to be independent entities, since that is what Computation Theory deals with.
So, the two problems are in completely different domains.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
4 Jul 24 * Ben thinks the professor Sipser is wrong16olcott
4 Jul 24 `* Re: Ben thinks the professor Sipser is wrong15Richard Damon
4 Jul 24  `* Re: Ben thinks the professor Sipser is wrong14olcott
5 Jul 24   `* Re: Ben thinks the professor Sipser is wrong13Richard Damon
5 Jul 24    `* Re: Ben thinks the professor Sipser is wrong12olcott
5 Jul 24     `* Re: Ben thinks the professor Sipser is wrong11Richard Damon
5 Jul 24      `* Re: Ben thinks the professor Sipser is wrong10olcott
5 Jul 24       `* Re: Ben thinks the professor Sipser is wrong9Richard Damon
5 Jul 24        +* Re: Ben thinks the professor Sipser is wrong2olcott
5 Jul 24        i`- Re: Ben thinks the professor Sipser is wrong1Richard Damon
5 Jul 24        `* Re: Ben thinks the professor Sipser is wrong6olcott
5 Jul 24         `* Re: Ben thinks the professor Sipser is wrong5Richard Damon
5 Jul 24          `* Re: Ben thinks the professor Sipser is wrong4olcott
5 Jul 24           `* Re: Ben thinks the professor Sipser is wrong3Richard Damon
5 Jul 24            `* Re: Ben thinks the professor Sipser is wrong2olcott
5 Jul 24             `- Re: Ben thinks the professor Sipser is wrong1Richard Damon

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