Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down

Liste des GroupesRevenir à s logic 
Sujet : Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down
De : wasell (at) *nospam* example.com (Wasell)
Groupes : comp.theory sci.logic
Date : 01. Jun 2024, 10:36:00
Autres entêtes
Organisation : Never You Mind, Inc.
Message-ID : <MPG.40c4fbcb474992459896fd@reader.eternal-september.org>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33
User-Agent : MicroPlanet-Gravity/3.0.4
On Fri, 31 May 2024 18:57:57 -0500, in article <v3do66$2ejq2$1@dont-email.me>,
olcott wrote:
 
On 5/31/2024 6:33 PM, Richard Damon wrote:

[...]

Never said it could. But haven't looked hard enough to be willing to say
it can't, but then, who cares, it doesn't say a thing about the real
halting problem, since H's simulation isn't "correct" by a definition
that relates simulation to non-halting behavior,
 
"...the Turing machine will halt whenever it enters a final state."
Linz(1990:234)
 
*If DD correctly simulated by HH can't possibly reach its own*
*final state then DD correctly simulated by HH is non-halting*

You keep using this quote as if it means that the /only/ way a TM
can halt, is if it enters a final state. You never quote the
context:

  "A Turing machine is said to halt whenever it reaches a
  configuration for which \delta is not defined; this is possible
  because \delta is a partial function. In fact, we will assume that
  no transitions are defined for any final state, so the Turing
  machine will halt whenever it enters a final state."
    (p. 227 in my copy)

This means that a TM /will/ halt if it enters a final state, but it
can also halt in other states. This interpretation is confirmed in
other places in Linz:

  "The machine can halt in a nonfinal state or it can enter an
  infinite loop and never halt. [...] we halt in a nonfinal state.
  [...] the machine will halt in the nonfinal state q_0 , since
  \delta(q_0,1) is undefined." (p. 232)

  "[...] the computation will halt in a nonfinal state." (p. 233)

  "Other input not in the language will also lead to a nonfinal
  halting state" (p. 234)

  "[...] that will halt in a nonfinal state q_n if x < y." (p. 237)

  etc, etc.

Can I expect you to never use this deceptive out-of-context quote
ever again?

Date Sujet#  Auteur
28 May 24 * D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets253olcott
29 May 24 +* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets214Richard Damon
29 May 24 i`* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets213olcott
29 May 24 i `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets212Richard Damon
29 May 24 i  `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets211olcott
29 May 24 i   +* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets194Richard Damon
29 May 24 i   i`* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets193olcott
29 May 24 i   i +* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets191Alan Mackenzie
29 May 24 i   i i+- Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets1olcott
29 May 24 i   i i`* Two dozen people were simply wrong189olcott
29 May 24 i   i i +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong3Alan Mackenzie
29 May 24 i   i i i+- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong1olcott
29 May 24 i   i i i`- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong1olcott
30 May 24 i   i i +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong (including Olcott)178Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i i i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise177olcott
30 May 24 i   i i i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise176Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i i i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise175olcott
30 May 24 i   i i i   `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise174Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i i i    `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise173olcott
30 May 24 i   i i i     `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise172Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i i i      `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise171olcott
30 May 24 i   i i i       +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise11Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i i i       i+* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise2olcott
30 May 24 i   i i i       ii`- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise1Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i i i       i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise8olcott
30 May 24 i   i i i       i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise7Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i i i       i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise6olcott
30 May 24 i   i i i       i   `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise5Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i i i       i    `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise4olcott
30 May 24 i   i i i       i     `* Re: Olcott was simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise3Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i i i       i      `* Re: Olcott was simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise2olcott
31 May 24 i   i i i       i       `- Re: Olcott was simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise1Richard Damon
31 May 24 i   i i i       `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise159olcott
31 May 24 i   i i i        +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise157Richard Damon
31 May 24 i   i i i        i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise156olcott
31 May 24 i   i i i        i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise155Richard Damon
31 May 24 i   i i i        i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise154olcott
31 May 24 i   i i i        i   `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise153Richard Damon
31 May 24 i   i i i        i    `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise152olcott
31 May 24 i   i i i        i     `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise151Richard Damon
31 May 24 i   i i i        i      `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down150olcott
31 May 24 i   i i i        i       `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down149Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i        `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down148olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i         `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down147Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i          `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down146olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down144Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down143olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down104Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down103olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down101Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down100olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down98Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down97olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down96Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down95olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i   `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down94Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i    `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down93olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down11Fred. Zwarts
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down10olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down9Fred. Zwarts
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down8olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down7Fred. Zwarts
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i    `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down6olcott
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i     `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down5Fred. Zwarts
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i      `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down4olcott
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i       `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down3Fred. Zwarts
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i        `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down2olcott
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i         `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down78Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down77olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down76Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down75olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down73Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down72olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down71Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down70olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i   +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down8Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i   i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down7olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i   i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down6Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i   i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down5olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i   i   +- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1immibis
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i   i   `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down3Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i   i    `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down2olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i   i     `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i   `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down61Fred. Zwarts
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i    `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down60olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down50Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down49olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down48Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down47olcott
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down45Richard Damon
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down44olcott
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down43Richard Damon
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down42olcott
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i   +- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1wij
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i   +- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1wij
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i   +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down37Richard Damon
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i   i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down36olcott
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i   i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down35Richard Damon
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i   i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down34olcott
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i   i   +* Re: Olcott is simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down32Richard Damon
3 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i   i   `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1Mikko
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i   +- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1wij
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i   `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1Fred. Zwarts
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1Fred. Zwarts
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down9Fred. Zwarts
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1immibis
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     +- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1immibis
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down2joes
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1immibis
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1Fred. Zwarts
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down26Wasell
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down12Fred. Zwarts
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1immibis
4 Jun 24 i   i i i        `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise1olcott
30 May 24 i   i i +- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong1immibis
1 Jun 24 i   i i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong -- Only basis for rebuttal in the last 3 years6olcott
30 May 24 i   i `- Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets1Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets16olcott
30 May 24 `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets --- deciders38olcott

Haut de la page

Les messages affichés proviennent d'usenet.

NewsPortal