Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)

Liste des GroupesRevenir à s logic 
Sujet : Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)
De : agisaak (at) *nospam* gm.invalid (André G. Isaak)
Groupes : comp.theory sci.logic
Date : 08. Mar 2024, 04:06:37
Autres entêtes
Organisation : Christians and Atheists United Against Creeping Agnosticism
Message-ID : <usdrrd$1bil8$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 2024-03-07 16:02, olcott wrote:

That Olcott machines always know their own TMD is unconventional.
 That their own TMD is correctly construed as an additional input
to their computation (whenever they don't ignore it) does provide
the reason why Ĥ.H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ <Ĥ> and H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ <H> can compute different
results and still be computations.
It's also the reason why you approach is fundamentally flawed. Putting aside the question of whether your proposal is workable (or even sane), if your 'Olcott Machines' automatically supply the machines they emulate with a copy of their own machine descriptions, then you are no longer working on the halting problem.
The halting problem asks, is it possible to construct a TM X that, given a description of a second TM Y and an input string Z *and* *only* *that* *input* *to* *work* *with*, is it possible for X to determine whether Y applied to Z halts.
Asking whether it is possible to construct a TM X which, given a description of a second TM Y, and input string Z, *and* a description X, can X determine whether Y applied to Z halts, is an *entirely* different question.
The answer to these two questions may well be entirely different, and the answer to the second question tells us absolutely nothing about the answer to the first, which is the only thing the halting problem is concerned with.
André
--
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Date Sujet#  Auteur
7 Mar 24 * We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)52olcott
8 Mar 24 +* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)49Richard Damon
8 Mar 24 i`* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)48olcott
8 Mar 24 i +* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)18olcott
8 Mar 24 i i+* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)2olcott
8 Mar 24 i ii`- Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)1Richard Damon
8 Mar 24 i i+* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)10olcott
8 Mar 24 i ii+- Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)1Richard Damon
8 Mar 24 i ii`* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)8Richard Damon
8 Mar 24 i ii `* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)7olcott
8 Mar 24 i ii  `* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)6Richard Damon
8 Mar 24 i ii   `* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)5olcott
8 Mar 24 i ii    `* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)4Richard Damon
8 Mar 24 i ii     `* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)3olcott
8 Mar 24 i ii      `* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)2olcott
8 Mar 24 i ii       `- Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)1olcott
8 Mar 24 i i`* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)5olcott
8 Mar 24 i i `* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)4olcott
8 Mar 24 i i  `* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D) --closure yet?--3olcott
8 Mar 24 i i   `* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D) --closure yet?--2olcott
9 Mar 24 i i    `- Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D) --Richard goes around in circles--1immibis
8 Mar 24 i `* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)29André G. Isaak
8 Mar 24 i  +* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)27immibis
8 Mar 24 i  i+* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)23olcott
8 Mar 24 i  ii`* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)22Richard Damon
8 Mar 24 i  ii `* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)21olcott
8 Mar 24 i  ii  `* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)20Richard Damon
8 Mar 24 i  ii   `* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)19olcott
8 Mar 24 i  ii    `* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)18Yaxley Peaks
15 Mar 24 i  ii     `* Re: H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ is correct when reports on the actual behavior that it sees --outermost H--17olcott
15 Mar 24 i  ii      +* Re: H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ is correct when reports on the actual behavior that it sees --outermost H--13Fred. Zwarts
15 Mar 24 i  ii      i`* Re: H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ is correct when reports on the actual behavior that it sees --outermost H--12olcott
15 Mar 24 i  ii      i +* Re: H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ is correct when reports on the actual behavior that it sees --outermost H--2Richard Damon
15 Mar 24 i  ii      i i`- Re: H(D,D)==0 is correct when reports on the actual behavior that it sees --outermost H--1olcott
15 Mar 24 i  ii      i `* Re: H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ is correct when reports on the actual behavior that it sees --outermost H--9immibis
15 Mar 24 i  ii      i  `* Re: H(D,D)==0 is correct when reports on the actual behavior that it sees --outermost H--8olcott
15 Mar 24 i  ii      i   +* Re: H(D,D)==0 is correct when reports on the actual behavior that it sees --outermost H--5immibis
15 Mar 24 i  ii      i   i`* Re: H(D,D)==0 is correct when reports on the actual behavior that it sees --outermost H--4olcott
15 Mar 24 i  ii      i   i `* Re: H(D,D)==0 is correct when reports on the actual behavior that it sees --outermost H--3immibis
15 Mar 24 i  ii      i   i  `* Re: H(D,D)==0 is correct when reports on the actual behavior that it sees --outermost H--2olcott
15 Mar 24 i  ii      i   i   `- Re: H(D,D)==0 is correct when reports on the actual behavior that it sees --outermost H--1immibis
15 Mar 24 i  ii      i   `* Re: H(D,D)==0 is correct when reports on the actual behavior that it sees --outermost H--2Richard Damon
15 Mar 24 i  ii      i    `- Re: H(D,D)==0 is correct when reports on the actual behavior that it sees --outermost H--1olcott
15 Mar 24 i  ii      `* Re: H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ is correct when reports on the actual behavior that it sees --outermost H--3immibis
15 Mar 24 i  ii       `* Re: H(D,D) ==0 is correct when reports on the actual behavior that it sees --outermost H--2olcott
15 Mar 24 i  ii        `- Re: H(D,D) ==0 is correct when reports on the actual behavior that it sees --outermost H--1immibis
8 Mar 24 i  i`* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)3Richard Damon
8 Mar 24 i  i `* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)2immibis
8 Mar 24 i  i  `- Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)1olcott
8 Mar 24 i  `- Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)1olcott
8 Mar 24 `* Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)2immibis
8 Mar 24  `- Re: We finally know exactly how H1(D,D) derives a different result than H(D,D)1olcott

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