Re: Can you see that D correctly simulated by H remains stuck in recursive simulation?

On 5/24/24 4:01 PM, olcott wrote:

On 5/24/2024 12:25 PM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 5/24/24 1:10 PM, olcott wrote:

On 5/24/2024 2:37 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:

Op 23.mei.2024 om 19:04 schreef olcott:

typedef int (*ptr)();  // ptr is pointer to int function in C
00       int H(ptr p, ptr i);
01       int D(ptr p)
02       {
03         int Halt_Status = H(p, p);
04         if (Halt_Status)
05           HERE: goto HERE;
06         return Halt_Status;
07       }
08
09       int main()
10       {
11         H(D,D);
12         return 0;
13       }
>
The above template refers to an infinite set of H/D pairs where D is
correctly simulated by pure function H. This was done because many
reviewers used the shell game ploy to endlessly switch which H/D pair
was being referred to.
>
*Correct Simulation Defined*
    This is provided because every reviewer had a different notion of
    correct simulation that diverges from this notion.
>
    A simulator is an x86 emulator that correctly emulates at least one
    of the x86 instructions of D in the order specified by the x86
    instructions of D.
>
    This may include correctly emulating the x86 instructions of H in
    the order specified by the x86 instructions of H thus calling H(D,D)
    in recursive simulation.
>
*Execution Trace*
    Line 11: main() invokes H(D,D); H(D,D) simulates lines 01, 02, and 03
    of D. This invokes H(D,D) again to repeat the process in endless
    recursive simulation.
>

>
Of course this depends very much on the exact meaning of 'correct simulation', or 'correctly emulating'.

>
Not when these are defined above.
>

E.g., take the call to H(p, p). If H recognizes that it is a call to a H with the same algorithm as is it using itself, and it knows that itself returns a certain integer value K, than it can be argued that it is a correct emulation to substitute the call to H with this integer value K, which is assigned to Halt_Status. Then the simulation of D can proceed to line 04.
What we need is an exact definition of 'correct simulation', in this

>
No, you simply need to pay complete attention to the fact that this
has already been provided.
>
I have been over the exact same issue with dozens and dozen of people
though hundreds and hundreds of messages over two years.

>
Excpet that we have two contradictory definitions present,

 Yes you have a definition of simulation where the x86 machine
language of D is simulated incorrectly or in the wrong order.

Nope. The UTM definition still simulates EVERY x86 machine language instruction of D simulated correctly in the exact order. The added requirement is that we look at a simulation that is never aborted.

 When D is correctly simulated by pure function H where H eventually
halts and returns the meaningless 56 no D correctly simulated by
H ever reaches its final state at line 06 an halts.
 

And, since H just does a PARTIAL simulation, that simulation is NOT the equivalent of a UTM simulation, which by definition does not stop until it reaches a fibnal state.
The fact you make the claim you do just shows either you are just a pathological liar that will call anyone else a liar if you don't like what they say, or you are really that stupid and can't imagine that correct must mean carried out to completion, aod doing so doesn't require doing a step wrong or out of order.
THe point you get tripped up on is that it appears that No H can do the required simulation and return the answer, so to try to use a simulation as the generator of the truth, it can't be the simulation by H, but needs to be something elses.