Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###

Liste des GroupesRevenir à s logic 
Sujet : Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ###
De : richard (at) *nospam* damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Groupes : comp.theory sci.logic
Date : 27. May 2024, 16:58:40
Autres entêtes
Organisation : i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID : <v32730$28n59$3@i2pn2.org>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 5/27/24 10:39 AM, olcott wrote:
On 5/27/2024 9:10 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 5/27/24 9:52 AM, olcott wrote:
On 5/27/2024 3:11 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-05-26 16:50:21 +0000, olcott said:
>
>
<snip>
So that: *Usenet Article Lookup*
http://al.howardknight.net/
can see the whole message now that
*the Thai spammer killed Google Groups*
>
typedef int (*ptr)();  // ptr is pointer to int function in C
00       int H(ptr p, ptr i);
01       int D(ptr p)
02       {
03         int Halt_Status = H(p, p);
04         if (Halt_Status)
05           HERE: goto HERE;
06         return Halt_Status;
07       }
08
09       int main()
10       {
11         H(D,D);
12         return 0;
13       }
>
When we see that D correctly simulated by pure simulator H would remain
stuck in recursive simulation then we also know that D never reaches its
own line 06 and halts in less than an infinite number of correctly
simulated steps.
>
Which means that H never terminates. You said that by your definition
a function that never terminates is not a pure function. Therefore
H, if it exists, is not a pure function, and the phrase "pure function
H" does not denote.
>
>
*I should have said that more clearly*
*That is why I need reviewers*
*Here it is more clearly*
>
When we hypothesize that H is a pure simulator we see that D correctly
simulated by pure simulator H remains stuck in recursive simulation thus
never reaches its own simulated final state at its line 06 and halts. In
this case H does not halt, thus is neither a pure function nor a
decider.
>
But when you hypothesize that H is actually a "pure simulator" (presumably one that never aborts) then you are creating a D that uses that pure simulator, and are ONLY deriving conclusions for such a D.
>
 When D correctly simulated by pure simulator H cannot possibly reach
its own simulated final state at line 06 and halt in an infinite number
of simulated steps we can conclude that less than an infinite number of
steps is also not enough steps for D to halt.
 
But ONLY for THAT D, the one built on the pure simulator that never aborts.
That is your flaw.
The problem is that if you try to define your input "D" as being your template, and not an actual "program", then you first need to go through and define what you actually mean by all these terms, and the result will not be directly applicable to the problem talking about actual programs.
You implicitly agreed to that by not refuting the implications I gave.
So, until you actually DEFINE what all those terms mean for a 'non-program" input, i.e, your template, you can't actually say anything.
What does it mean to "Simulate" a template, especially when you reach the point the templates diverge (the call H instruction)
You logic just unsoundly mixes the different programs.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
5 May 24 * Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H409olcott
5 May 24 +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H60Richard Damon
5 May 24 i+* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H2olcott
5 May 24 ii`- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H1Richard Damon
5 May 24 i+* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H39olcott
5 May 24 ii`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H38Richard Damon
5 May 24 ii +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H14olcott
5 May 24 ii i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H13Richard Damon
6 May 24 ii i `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H12olcott
6 May 24 ii i  `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H11Richard Damon
6 May 24 ii i   +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H4olcott
6 May 24 ii i   i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H3Richard Damon
6 May 24 ii i   i `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H2olcott
6 May 24 ii i   i  `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H1Richard Damon
6 May 24 ii i   `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H6olcott
6 May 24 ii i    `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H5Richard Damon
6 May 24 ii i     `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H4olcott
6 May 24 ii i      `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H3Richard Damon
6 May 24 ii i       `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H2olcott
7 May 24 ii i        `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H1Richard Damon
6 May 24 ii `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H23olcott
6 May 24 ii  +- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H --- typo1olcott
6 May 24 ii  `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H21Richard Damon
6 May 24 ii   +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H10olcott
6 May 24 ii   i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H9Richard Damon
6 May 24 ii   i +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H2olcott
6 May 24 ii   i i`- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H1Richard Damon
6 May 24 ii   i `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H6olcott
6 May 24 ii   i  `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H5Richard Damon
6 May 24 ii   i   `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H4olcott
6 May 24 ii   i    `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H3Richard Damon
6 May 24 ii   i     `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H2olcott
7 May 24 ii   i      `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H1Richard Damon
6 May 24 ii   +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H4olcott
6 May 24 ii   i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H3Richard Damon
6 May 24 ii   i `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H2olcott
6 May 24 ii   i  `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H1Richard Damon
6 May 24 ii   `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H6olcott
6 May 24 ii    `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H5Richard Damon
6 May 24 ii     `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ---4olcott
6 May 24 ii      `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ---3Richard Damon
6 May 24 ii       `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ---2olcott
7 May 24 ii        `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ---1Richard Damon
5 May 24 i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H18olcott
5 May 24 i +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H3Richard Damon
5 May 24 i i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H2olcott
6 May 24 i i `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H1Richard Damon
7 May 24 i `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H14immibis
7 May 24 i  `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H +++13olcott
7 May 24 i   +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H +++10Richard Damon
7 May 24 i   i+* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H +++8olcott
7 May 24 i   ii`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H +++7Richard Damon
7 May 24 i   ii `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H +++6olcott
7 May 24 i   ii  `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H +++5Richard Damon
7 May 24 i   ii   `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H +++4olcott
7 May 24 i   ii    `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H +++3Richard Damon
7 May 24 i   ii     `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H +++2olcott
8 May 24 i   ii      `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H +++1Richard Damon
9 May 24 i   i`- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H +++1immibis
9 May 24 i   `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H +++2immibis
9 May 24 i    `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H @@@1olcott
6 May 24 +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H347olcott
7 May 24 i+* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H47Richard Damon
7 May 24 ii`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===46olcott
7 May 24 ii `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===45Richard Damon
7 May 24 ii  `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===44olcott
7 May 24 ii   `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===43Richard Damon
7 May 24 ii    `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===42olcott
7 May 24 ii     +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===40Richard Damon
7 May 24 ii     i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===39olcott
7 May 24 ii     i `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===38Richard Damon
7 May 24 ii     i  +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===6olcott
8 May 24 ii     i  i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===5Richard Damon
8 May 24 ii     i  i `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===4olcott
8 May 24 ii     i  i  `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===3Richard Damon
8 May 24 ii     i  i   `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===2olcott
8 May 24 ii     i  i    `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===1Richard Damon
7 May 24 ii     i  `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===31olcott
8 May 24 ii     i   `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===30Richard Damon
8 May 24 ii     i    +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===25olcott
8 May 24 ii     i    i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===24Richard Damon
8 May 24 ii     i    i `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===23olcott
8 May 24 ii     i    i  `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===22Richard Damon
8 May 24 ii     i    i   `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H @@@21olcott
8 May 24 ii     i    i    +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H @@@11olcott
8 May 24 ii     i    i    i`* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H @@@10Richard Damon
8 May 24 ii     i    i    i `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H @@@9olcott
9 May 24 ii     i    i    i  `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H @@@8Richard Damon
9 May 24 ii     i    i    i   +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H @@@2olcott
9 May 24 ii     i    i    i   i`- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H @@@1Richard Damon
9 May 24 ii     i    i    i   +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H @@@2olcott
9 May 24 ii     i    i    i   i`- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H @@@1Richard Damon
9 May 24 ii     i    i    i   `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H @@@3olcott
9 May 24 ii     i    i    i    `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H @@@2Richard Damon
9 May 24 ii     i    i    i     `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H @@@1joes
8 May 24 ii     i    i    `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H @@@9Richard Damon
8 May 24 ii     i    i     `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H @@@8olcott
8 May 24 ii     i    i      +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H @@@2wij
9 May 24 ii     i    i      i`- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H @@@1Richard Damon
9 May 24 ii     i    i      `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H @@@5Richard Damon
9 May 24 ii     i    i       `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H @@@4olcott
8 May 24 ii     i    +* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===2olcott
8 May 24 ii     i    `* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===2olcott
9 May 24 ii     `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H ===1immibis
7 May 24 i+* Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H298olcott
7 May 24 i`- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H1olcott
7 May 24 `- Re: Every D(D) simulated by H presents non-halting behavior to H1immibis

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