Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems

Liste des GroupesRevenir à s logic 
Sujet : Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems
De : richard (at) *nospam* damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Groupes : sci.logic comp.theory
Date : 10. Jun 2024, 13:16:18
Autres entêtes
Organisation : i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID : <v46na2$3ifov$2@i2pn2.org>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 6/9/24 11:12 PM, olcott wrote:
On 6/9/2024 9:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 6/9/24 10:47 PM, olcott wrote:
On 6/9/2024 2:36 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 6/9/24 3:08 PM, olcott wrote:
On 6/9/2024 1:54 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 6/9/24 2:40 PM, olcott wrote:
On 6/9/2024 1:29 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 6/9/24 2:13 PM, olcott wrote:
On 6/9/2024 1:08 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 6/9/24 1:18 PM, olcott wrote:
On 6/9/2024 10:36 AM, olcott wrote:
*This has direct application to undecidable decision problems*
>
When we ask the question: What is a truthmaker? The generic answer is
whatever makes an expression of language true <is> its truthmaker. This
entails that if there is nothing in the universe that makes expression X
true then X lacks a truthmaker and is untrue.
>
X may be untrue because X is false. In that case ~X has a truthmaker.
Now we have the means to unequivocally define truth-bearer. X is a
truth-bearer iff (if and only if) X or ~X has a truthmaker.
>
I have been working in this same area as a non-academician for a few
years. I have only focused on expressions of language that are {true on
the basis of their meaning}.
>
>
Now that truthmaker and truthbearer are fully anchored it is easy to see
that self-contradictory expressions are simply not truthbearers.
>
“This sentence is not true” can't be true because that would make it
untrue and it can't be false because that would make it true.
>
Within the the definition of truthmaker specified above: “this sentence
has no truthmaker” is simply not a truthbearer. It can't be true within
the above specified definition of truthmaker because this would make it
false. It can't be false because that makes
it true.
>
>
>
Unless the system is inconsistent, in which case they can be.
>
Note,
>
When I specify the ultimate foundation of all truth then this
does apply to truth in logic, truth in math and truth in science.
>
Nope. Not for Formal system, which have a specific definition of its truth-makers, unless you let your definition become trivial for Formal logic where a "truth-makers" is what has been defined to be the "truth-makers" for the system.
>
>
Formal systems are free to define their own truthmakers.
When these definitions result in inconsistency they are
proved to be incorrect.
>
So, you admit that your definition is just inconsistant, as it says FOR ALL and then you admit it isn't FOR ALL
>
And a formal system proven inconsistant isn't necessarily incorrect, just inconsistent.
>
>
To the extent that they define inconsistency they
are not truth-makers.
>
>
YOU hae a TYPE ERROR in your statement.
>
That just proves that YOUR logic is incorrect.
>
How can a SYSTEM be a propsition?
>
>
*Stopping at your first big mistake*
>
When we ask the question: What is a truthmaker? The generic answer is whatever makes an expression of language true <is> its truthmaker.
>
A cat in your living room is not a proposition yet makes the
sentence: "there is a cat in my living room" true, thus <is> its
truthmaker.
>
>
Which isn't a formal system.
>
 A cat in your living room <is> a truthmaker and is not
a formal system.
 
So, you agree your definiton doesn't work on formal systems?
or do you agree that you reply was just Red Herring?

A formal system that defines inconsistant axioms, is still a formal system, and defines inconsistent axioms.
>
 Yes and it is wrong.
You don't get to say that a System is wrong just because it doesn't meet YOUR idea of what is correct.
You just have a God complex, which is going to put you into Gehenna.

 
It may well be a formal system DESIGNED to handle inconsistant statements, by using multi-valued logic.
>
 That is not the way that truth really works.
Did a person invent the value of PI or discover it?
Red Herring.
You just don't understand the concept, because it is beyond you.
That makes you just like the flat earthers or election deniers.

 I am not inventing the notion of truthmaker I am making this notion
more clear.
And trying to push it outside its domain.

 When we ask the question: What is a truthmaker? The generic answer is whatever makes an expression of language true <is> its truthmaker.

 This entails that if there is nothing in the universe that makes expression X true then X lacks a truthmaker and is untrue.
But not all logic is about THIS "Universe", which seems to be a fundamental error on your part.
Thus the qualifier "The" is incorrect, as it implies singular.

 
It might be based on a limited form of logic that prevents the principle of explosion from happening, and thus even with some inconsistancies, it can be used to show some other useful results.
>
That doesn't make the system "not true".
>
YOu are just showing that you concept of logic is way too limited to be "the ultimate definition of logic".
>
>
 

Date Sujet#  Auteur
9 Jun 24 * Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems63olcott
9 Jun 24 +* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems55olcott
9 Jun 24 i`* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems54Richard Damon
9 Jun 24 i `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems53olcott
9 Jun 24 i  `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems52Richard Damon
9 Jun 24 i   `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems51olcott
9 Jun 24 i    +* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems40Richard Damon
9 Jun 24 i    i`* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems39olcott
9 Jun 24 i    i +* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems37Richard Damon
10 Jun 24 i    i i`* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems36olcott
10 Jun 24 i    i i +* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems34Richard Damon
10 Jun 24 i    i i i`* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems33olcott
10 Jun 24 i    i i i `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems32Richard Damon
10 Jun 24 i    i i i  `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems31olcott
11 Jun 24 i    i i i   `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems30Richard Damon
11 Jun 24 i    i i i    `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems29olcott
12 Jun 24 i    i i i     `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems28Richard Damon
12 Jun 24 i    i i i      `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems27olcott
12 Jun 24 i    i i i       `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems26Richard Damon
12 Jun 24 i    i i i        `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems25olcott
12 Jun 24 i    i i i         `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems24Richard Damon
12 Jun 24 i    i i i          `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems23olcott
12 Jun 24 i    i i i           `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems22Richard Damon
12 Jun 24 i    i i i            `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems21olcott
13 Jun 24 i    i i i             `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems20Richard Damon
13 Jun 24 i    i i i              `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems19olcott
13 Jun 24 i    i i i               `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems18Richard Damon
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems17olcott
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                 `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems16Richard Damon
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                  `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems15olcott
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                   `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems14Richard Damon
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                    `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems13olcott
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                     `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems12Richard Damon
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                      `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems11olcott
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                       `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems10Richard Damon
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                        `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems9olcott
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                         `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems8Richard Damon
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                          `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems7olcott
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                           `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems6Richard Damon
13 Jun 24 i    i i i                            `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems5olcott
14 Jun 24 i    i i i                             `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems4Richard Damon
14 Jun 24 i    i i i                              `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems3olcott
14 Jun 24 i    i i i                               `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems2Richard Damon
14 Jun 24 i    i i i                                `- Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems1olcott
10 Jun 24 i    i i `- Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems1olcott
10 Jun 24 i    i `- Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems1Richard Damon
11 Jun 24 i    `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works10olcott
12 Jun 24 i     `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works9Richard Damon
12 Jun 24 i      `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works8olcott
12 Jun 24 i       `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works7Richard Damon
12 Jun 24 i        `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works6olcott
12 Jun 24 i         `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works5Richard Damon
12 Jun 24 i          `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works4olcott
13 Jun 24 i           `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works3Richard Damon
13 Jun 24 i            `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works2olcott
13 Jun 24 i             `- Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems --- the way truth really works1Richard Damon
9 Jun 24 +* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems2joes
9 Jun 24 i`- Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems1olcott
9 Jun 24 `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems5Richard Damon
9 Jun 24  `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems4olcott
9 Jun 24   `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems3Richard Damon
9 Jun 24    `* Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems2olcott
9 Jun 24     `- Re: Truthmaker Maximalism and undecidable decision problems1Richard Damon

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