Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable --- ZFC

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Sujet : Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable --- ZFC
De : polcott333 (at) *nospam* gmail.com (olcott)
Groupes : sci.logic
Date : 20. Aug 2024, 15:59:42
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <va27ge$3cvgv$7@dont-email.me>
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On 8/20/2024 5:21 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-08-19 13:12:30 +0000, olcott said:
 
On 8/19/2024 3:49 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-08-18 11:51:33 +0000, olcott said:
>
On 8/18/2024 5:28 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-08-16 22:16:59 +0000, olcott said:
>
On 8/16/2024 5:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 8/16/24 5:35 PM, olcott wrote:
On 8/16/2024 4:05 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 8/16/24 4:39 PM, olcott wrote:
>
ZFC didn't need to do that. All they had to do is
redefine the notion of a set so that it was no longer
incoherent.
>
>
I guess you haven't read the papers of Zermelo and Fraenkel. They created a new definition of what a set was, and then showed what that implies, since by changing the definitions, all the old work of set theory has to be thrown out, and then we see what can be established.
>
>
None of this is changing any more rules. All
of these are the effects of the change of the
definition of a set.
>
>
No, they defined not only what WAS a set, but what you could do as basic operations ON a set.
>
Axiom of extensibility: the definition of sets being equal, that ZFC is built on first-order logic.
>
>
>
Axion of regularity/Foundation: This is the rule that a set can not be a member of itself, and that we can count the members of a set.
>
This one is the key that conquered Russell's Paradox.
If anything else changed it changed on the basis of this change
or was not required to defeat RP.
>
That is not sufficient. They also had to Comprehension.
>
Axiom Schema of Specification: We can build a sub-set from another set and a set of conditions. (Which implies the existance of the empty set)
>
This is added to keep most of Comprenesion but not Russell's set.
>
>
All they did was (as I already said) was redefine the notion of a set.
That this can still be called set theory seems redundant.
>
They did, as both Richard Damon and I already said, much more. They
also explained their rationale, worked out various consequnces of
their axioms and compared them to expectations, and developed better
sets of axioms.
>
>
They made no other changes to the notion of set theory
than redefining what a set is. Even then it seems they
did less than this.
 That is so obvious that needs not be mentined. There is nothing
in the set theory expept what a set is so obviously nothing else
can be changed.
 
There are at least two tings in set theory:
(a) What a set is
(b) How a set works
When how a set is constructed is changed this single
change has great impact yet is still only one change.

From what I recall it seems that they only changed how
sets can be constructed. The operations that can be
performed on sets remained the same.
 There are axioms about exstence and non-existence of certain kind of
sets. For example, the axiom of regularity (aka foudation) specifies
that ill-founded sets (e.g., Quine's atom) do not exist.
 
One consequence of ZF axioms is that there is no set that contains all
other sets as members. Some regard this as a defect and have developed
set thories that have a universal set that contains all other sets as
members (and usually itself, too).
>
Then maybe they did this incorrectly. They only needed to
specify that a set cannot be a member of itself when a
set is constructed. This would not preclude a universal
set of all other sets.
 The power set axiom prevents the existence of a set that contains
all other sets.
In mathematics, the axiom of power set[1] is one of the
Zermelo–Fraenkel axioms of axiomatic set theory. It
guarantees for every set x the existence of a set P(x)
the power set of x consisting precisely of the subsets of x.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_power_set
*It simply corrected the error of this*
In mathematics, the power set (or powerset) of a set S
is the set of all subsets of S, including the empty set
and S itself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_set

Set theories with an unversal set need to restrict
the construction operations more than what is usually considered
reasonable.
 
I don't see how. The set of all sets that do not contain
themselves simply becomes the set of all sets.

Cantor's original presentation did not specify the permitted operations
but all presented constructions were from already constructed sets so
no presented set contained itself. Cantor did not use unlimited
construction by properties but did not prohibit such constructions.
 
--
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

Date Sujet#  Auteur
29 Jul 24 * Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue219olcott
29 Jul 24 +* Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue3Richard Damon
29 Jul 24 i`* Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue2olcott
30 Jul 24 i `- Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue1Richard Damon
29 Jul 24 +- Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue V21olcott
30 Jul 24 +* Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue212Mikko
30 Jul 24 i`* Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue211olcott
31 Jul 24 i `* Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue210Mikko
31 Jul 24 i  `* Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue209olcott
2 Aug 24 i   `* Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue208Mikko
2 Aug 24 i    +* Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue206olcott
3 Aug 24 i    i`* Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue205Mikko
3 Aug 24 i    i `* Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue204olcott
3 Aug 24 i    i  +* Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue9Richard Damon
3 Aug 24 i    i  i`* Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue8olcott
3 Aug 24 i    i  i `* Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue7Richard Damon
3 Aug 24 i    i  i  +* Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue5olcott
4 Aug 24 i    i  i  i`* Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue4Richard Damon
4 Aug 24 i    i  i  i `* Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue3olcott
4 Aug 24 i    i  i  i  +- Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue1Python
4 Aug 24 i    i  i  i  `- Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue1Richard Damon
4 Aug 24 i    i  i  `- Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue1olcott
4 Aug 24 i    i  `* Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue194Mikko
4 Aug 24 i    i   `* Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue193olcott
6 Aug 24 i    i    `* Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue192Mikko
6 Aug 24 i    i     `* x true.191olcott
6 Aug 24 i    i      +* Re: x true.2Jim Burns
6 Aug 24 i    i      i`- Boolean True(L, x) refuting Tarski1olcott
6 Aug 24 i    i      +* Re: x true.2joes
6 Aug 24 i    i      i`- Re: x true.1olcott
7 Aug 24 i    i      +* Re: x true.185Mikko
7 Aug 24 i    i      i`* True on the basis of meaning (and not any other kind)184olcott
8 Aug 24 i    i      i `* Re: True on the basis of meaning (and not any other kind)183Mikko
8 Aug 24 i    i      i  `* Re: True on the basis of meaning (and not any other kind)182olcott
9 Aug 24 i    i      i   `* Re: True on the basis of meaning (and not any other kind)181Mikko
9 Aug 24 i    i      i    `* Re: True on the basis of meaning (and not any other kind)180olcott
9 Aug 24 i    i      i     +* This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable177olcott
10 Aug 24 i    i      i     i`* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable176Mikko
10 Aug 24 i    i      i     i `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable175olcott
12 Aug 24 i    i      i     i  `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable174Mikko
12 Aug 24 i    i      i     i   `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable173olcott
12 Aug 24 i    i      i     i    +- Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable1Richard Damon
13 Aug 24 i    i      i     i    `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable171Mikko
13 Aug 24 i    i      i     i     `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable170olcott
15 Aug 24 i    i      i     i      `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable169Mikko
16 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       +* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable159olcott
16 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i+* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable6Mikko
16 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       ii`* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable5olcott
16 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       ii `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable4Mikko
16 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       ii  `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable3olcott
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       ii   `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable2Mikko
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       ii    `- Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable1olcott
16 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i`* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable152Richard Damon
16 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable151olcott
16 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  +* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable142Richard Damon
16 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i`* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable141olcott
16 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i +* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable136Richard Damon
16 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i+* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable2olcott
16 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i ii`- Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable1Richard Damon
16 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i`* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable133olcott
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i +* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable131Richard Damon
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i`* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable130olcott
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i +* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable112Richard Damon
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i`* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable111olcott
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable110Richard Damon
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i  `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable109olcott
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i   `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable108Richard Damon
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i    `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable107olcott
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     +* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable99Richard Damon
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i`* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable98olcott
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable97Richard Damon
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i  `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable96olcott
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   +* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable42Richard Damon
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i`* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable41olcott
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable40Richard Damon
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i  `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable39olcott
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   +* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable34Richard Damon
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i`* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable33olcott
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i +* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable28Richard Damon
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i`* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable27olcott
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i +* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable25Richard Damon
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i`* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable24olcott
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i +* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable22Richard Damon
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i i`* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable21olcott
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i i `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable20Richard Damon
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i i  `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable19olcott
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i i   +* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable17Richard Damon
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i i   i`* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable16olcott
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i i   i +* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable14Richard Damon
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i i   i i`* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable13olcott
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i i   i i `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable12Richard Damon
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i i   i i  `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable11olcott
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i i   i i   +* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable9Richard Damon
17 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i i   i i   i`* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable8olcott
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i i   i i   i `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable7Richard Damon
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i i   i i   i  `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable6olcott
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i i   i i   i   `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable5Richard Damon
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i i   i i   i    `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable4olcott
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i i   i i   i     `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable3Richard Damon
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i i   i i   i      `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable2olcott
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i i   i i   i       `- Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable1Richard Damon
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i i   i i   `- Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable1Mikko
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i i   i `- Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable1Mikko
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i i   `- Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable1Mikko
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i i `- Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable1Mikko
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i i `- Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable1Mikko
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   i `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable4Mikko
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   i   `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable4Mikko
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     i   `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable53Mikko
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i i     `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable7Mikko
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i i `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable17Mikko
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i i `- Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable1Mikko
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  i `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable4Mikko
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       i  `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable8Mikko
18 Aug 24 i    i      i     i       `* Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable9olcott
10 Aug 24 i    i      i     +- Re: True on the basis of meaning (and not any other kind)1Mikko
10 Aug 24 i    i      i     `- Re: True on the basis of meaning (and not any other kind)1Mikko
7 Aug 24 i    i      `- Re: x true. but only if it IS true.1Richard Damon
2 Aug 24 i    `- Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue1olcott
31 Jul 24 `* Re: Analytic Expressions of language not linked to their semantic meaning are simply untrue2olcott

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