Re: Incorrect questions and halt deciders

On 3/13/24 6:35 PM, olcott wrote:

On 3/13/2024 7:09 PM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 3/13/24 4:20 PM, olcott wrote:

For any program H that might determine whether programs
halt, a "pathological" program D, called with some input,
can pass its own source and its input to H and then
specifically do the opposite of what H predicts D will do.
No H can exist that handles this case.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem

>
Yes, but the correct answer for the question given to H exists.
>

 There is no mapping from
(a) Specific TM: H(D,D) to Halts(D,D)
(b) Specific unmarried_man to stopped_beating_wife(YES/NO)
 

>
When you ask a man that has never been married:
Have you stopped beating your wife?
https://groups.google.com/g/sci.lang/c/AO5Vlupeelo/m/nxJy7N2vULwJ

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Which is a different issue.
>

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Although there is a mapping from some men to YES/NO
there is no mapping from never married men to YES/NO
thus the question is incorrect for all unmarried men.

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Invalid, because it asks about a non-existant person.

and a non-existent halt decider H
 

Also, because it presumes facts that are not true.
>

 There is no mapping from
(a) Specific TM: H(D,D) to Halts(D,D)

Which s a lying comment since nothing in the question asks for one.
The question ask for the mapping from D,D to Halts(D,D), which exists.
Remeber, the question is, and only is:
Does the Machine and Input described by the input Halt when run.
Thus, H only gets ivolved when we are CHECKING the answer.

(b) Specific unmarried_man to stopped_beating_wife(YES/NO)
 (a) and (b) are isomorphic.

Only in that H doesn't exist, as oesn't the man's wife.

 

>
Although there is a mapping from some TM/input pairs to YES/NO
there is no mapping from H/D to YES/NO
thus the question is incorrect for H/D
>

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But the question isn't mapping H/D, it is mapping the Machine described by the input (and its input) to if it reaches a final state, which has

 That <is> one half of the mapping.
To be isomorphic
mapping from specific_unmarried_man to stopped_beating_wife(YES/NO)
we must have mapping from specific TM: H(D,D) to Halts(D,D)

Which is just a Red Herring, because we are NOT asking about what H does, but about what its input represents and what H needs to do to be correct.

 

an answer, depend on the specifics of the problem, that needed to have specifed before you could ever actually ask the question.
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You are just LYING about what the question actually is.
>

It now seems to me that you never were lying.
The philosophical foundation of these things is very difficult.
 It is when you and others ridiculously disagreed with the dead
obvious totally verified facts of the actual behavior behavior
of H1(D,D) and H(D,D) that gave me sufficient reason to conclude
that you and others were lying.
 The actual truth seems to be that you and others were so biased
against my position on that you and others persistently ignored
my proof that I was correct many many dozens of times.

No, we are biased to the truth.

 Even when I said show me the error in the execution trace many
many times you and others totally failed.
 

But the queston isn't about the execution trace, it is the comparison of the Behavior of the Computation represented by the input (which you almost NEVER show, because it shows that you lying) and the answer that the decider gives.