Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort

Liste des GroupesRevenir à s logic 
Sujet : Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort
De : polcott2 (at) *nospam* gmail.com (olcott)
Groupes : comp.theory sci.logic
Date : 27. Mar 2024, 22:11:24
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <uu1uhc$31r8p$2@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 3/27/2024 3:02 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
Op 27.mrt.2024 om 20:41 schreef olcott:
On 3/27/2024 2:39 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
Op 27.mrt.2024 om 20:36 schreef olcott:
On 3/27/2024 2:09 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
Op 27.mrt.2024 om 15:09 schreef olcott:
On 3/27/2024 4:55 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
Op 26.mrt.2024 om 15:43 schreef olcott:
On 3/26/2024 3:51 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
Op 25.mrt.2024 om 23:50 schreef olcott:
On 3/24/2024 11:42 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-03-24 03:39:12 +0000, olcott said:
>
On 3/23/2024 9:54 PM, immibis wrote:
On 24/03/24 03:40, olcott wrote:
On 3/23/2024 9:34 PM, immibis wrote:
On 24/03/24 03:15, olcott wrote:
On 3/23/2024 8:40 PM, immibis wrote:
On 24/03/24 00:29, olcott wrote:
On 3/23/2024 5:58 PM, immibis wrote:
On 23/03/24 16:02, olcott wrote:
(b) H(D,D) that DOES abort its simulation is correct
     (ABOUT THIS ABORT DECISION)
     because it would halt and all deciders must always halt.
>
To be a decider it has to give an answer.
>
To be a halt decider it has to give an answer that is the same as whether the direct execution of its input would halt.
>
That would entail that
>
Tough shit. That is the requirement.
>
I proved otherwise in the parts you erased.
>
You proved that the requirement is not actually the requirement?
>
I proved that it cannot be a coherent requirement, it can still
be an incoherent requirement. Try and think it through for yourself.
>
Every program/input pair either halts some time, or never halts.
Determining this is a coherent requirement.
>
That part is coherent.
>
The part that this determination must be done by a Turing machine
using descriptions of the program and input is coherent, too.
>
>
Every decider is required by definition to only report on what
this input specifies.
>
int sum(int x, int y){ return x + y; }
sum(3,4) is not allowed to report on the sum of 5 + 6
even if you really really believe that it should.
>
>
Exactly! Therefore H(D,D), where D is based on H that aborts and returns false, so that D halts, should not return a report about another D that does not halt, even if you really really believe that it should.
>
There is enough information for sum(3,4) to compute the sum of 3+4.
There is NOT enough information for sum(3,4) to compute the sum of 5+6.
>
There is enough information for H1(D,D) to compute Halts(D,D).
There is NOT enough information for H(D,D) to compute Halts(D,D).
>
>
But it is possible to create a simulating sum decider that aborts sum and returns the sum of 5+6 and then claim that it is right, because it has not enough information to calculate 3+4. It is possible, but wrong.
The only reason it has not enough information, is that it aborts prematurely. That makes the decision to abort wrong. This holds for H as well.
>
Why are you denying reality?
>
Olcott is frustrated, but wrong.
>
>
Can D correctly simulated by H terminate normally?
01 int D(ptr x)  // ptr is pointer to int function
02 {
03   int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
04   if (Halt_Status)
05     HERE: goto HERE;
06   return Halt_Status;
07 }
08
09 void main()
10 {
11   H(D,D);
12 }
>
*Execution Trace*
Line 11: main() invokes H(D,D);
>
*keeps repeating* (unless aborted)
Line 03: simulated D(D) invokes simulated H(D,D) that simulates D(D)
>
Wrong. Should be:
*will return false* (unless aborted)
>
There is no possible way that D simulated by any H ever
returns false whether its simulation has been aborted or not.
Are you fibbing about your programming  skill?
>
Why denying easily verified facts?
>
>
Oh you are just flat out lying, I get it.
 Clearly, olcott has no rebuttal.
But soon he will again say that his mistakes were never shown to him.
You either are lying about this or
lying about your programming skill or
are lying about which D you are referring to.
--
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

Date Sujet#  Auteur
27 Mar 24 * Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort27olcott
27 Mar 24 +* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort7Fred. Zwarts
27 Mar 24 i`* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort6olcott
27 Mar 24 i `* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort5Fred. Zwarts
27 Mar 24 i  +- Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort1olcott
27 Mar 24 i  `* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort3olcott
27 Mar 24 i   `* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort2Fred. Zwarts
27 Mar 24 i    `- Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort1olcott
28 Mar 24 `* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort19Richard Damon
28 Mar 24  `* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort18olcott
28 Mar 24   `* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort17Richard Damon
28 Mar 24    `* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort16olcott
28 Mar 24     `* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort15Richard Damon
28 Mar 24      `* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort14olcott
28 Mar 24       `* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort13Richard Damon
28 Mar 24        `* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort12olcott
28 Mar 24         `* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort11Richard Damon
28 Mar 24          `* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort10olcott
28 Mar 24           `* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort9Richard Damon
28 Mar 24            `* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort8olcott
29 Mar 24             `* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort7Richard Damon
29 Mar 24              `* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort6olcott
29 Mar 24               `* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort5Richard Damon
29 Mar 24                `* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort4olcott
29 Mar 24                 `* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort3Richard Damon
29 Mar 24                  `* Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort2olcott
29 Mar 24                   `- Re: Categorically exhaustive reasoning applied to the decision to abort1Richard Damon

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