Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise

Liste des GroupesRevenir à s logic 
Sujet : Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise
De : polcott333 (at) *nospam* gmail.com (olcott)
Groupes : comp.theory sci.logic
Date : 31. May 2024, 03:54:52
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <v3bale$222n5$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 5/30/2024 8:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 5/30/24 9:31 AM, olcott wrote:
On 5/30/2024 2:40 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-05-30 01:15:21 +0000, olcott said:

x <is> a finite string Turing machine description that SPECIFIES behavior. The term: "representing" is inaccurate.
>
No, x is a description of the Turing machine that specifies the behaviour
that H is required to report.
>
That is what I said.
 Note, the string doesn't DIRECTLY specify behavior, but only indirectly as a description/representation of the Turing Mach
 
The string directly SPECIFIES behavior to a UTM or to
any TM based on a UTM.

>
The maning of x is that there is a universal
Turing machine that, when given x and y, simulates what the described
Turing machine does when given y.
>
Yes that is also correct.
  
>
When Ĥ is applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩
Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qy ∞
Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn
>
When embedded_H is a UTM then it never halts.
 But it isn't unless H is also a UTM, and then H never returns.
 You like to keep returning to that deception.
 
>
When embedded_H is a simulating halt decider then its correctly
simulated input never reaches its own simulated final state of
⟨Ĥ.qn⟩ and halts. H itself does halt and correctly rejects its
input as non-halting.
 Except that isn't what the question is, the question is what the actual behavior of the machine described, or equivalently, the simulation by a REAL UTM (one that never stops till done).
When embedded_H is a real UTM then Ĥ ⟨Ĥ⟩ never stops and embedded_H is
not a decider.
When embedded_H is based on a real UTM then ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ correctly simulated
by embedded_H never reaches its own simulated final state of ⟨Ĥ.qn⟩ in
any finite number of steps and after these finite steps embedded_H
halts.
*I am going to stop here and not respond to anything else*
*that you say until AFTER this one point is fully resolved*
--
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

Date Sujet#  Auteur
28 May 24 * D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets253olcott
29 May 24 +* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets214Richard Damon
29 May 24 i`* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets213olcott
29 May 24 i `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets212Richard Damon
29 May 24 i  `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets211olcott
29 May 24 i   +* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets194Richard Damon
29 May 24 i   i`* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets193olcott
29 May 24 i   i +* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets191Alan Mackenzie
29 May 24 i   i i+- Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets1olcott
29 May 24 i   i i`* Two dozen people were simply wrong189olcott
29 May 24 i   i i +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong3Alan Mackenzie
29 May 24 i   i i i+- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong1olcott
29 May 24 i   i i i`- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong1olcott
30 May 24 i   i i +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong (including Olcott)178Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i i i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise177olcott
30 May 24 i   i i i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise176Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i i i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise175olcott
30 May 24 i   i i i   `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise174Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i i i    `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise173olcott
30 May 24 i   i i i     `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise172Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i i i      `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise171olcott
30 May 24 i   i i i       +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise11Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i i i       i+* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise2olcott
30 May 24 i   i i i       ii`- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise1Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i i i       i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise8olcott
30 May 24 i   i i i       i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise7Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i i i       i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise6olcott
30 May 24 i   i i i       i   `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise5Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i i i       i    `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise4olcott
30 May 24 i   i i i       i     `* Re: Olcott was simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise3Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   i i i       i      `* Re: Olcott was simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise2olcott
31 May 24 i   i i i       i       `- Re: Olcott was simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise1Richard Damon
31 May 24 i   i i i       `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise159olcott
31 May 24 i   i i i        +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise157Richard Damon
31 May 24 i   i i i        i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise156olcott
31 May 24 i   i i i        i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise155Richard Damon
31 May 24 i   i i i        i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise154olcott
31 May 24 i   i i i        i   `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise153Richard Damon
31 May 24 i   i i i        i    `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise152olcott
31 May 24 i   i i i        i     `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise151Richard Damon
31 May 24 i   i i i        i      `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down150olcott
31 May 24 i   i i i        i       `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down149Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i        `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down148olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i         `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down147Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i          `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down146olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down144Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down143olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down104Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down103olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down101Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down100olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down98Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down97olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down96Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down95olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i   `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down94Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i    `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down93olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down11Fred. Zwarts
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down10olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down9Fred. Zwarts
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down8olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down7Fred. Zwarts
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i    `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down6olcott
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i     `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down5Fred. Zwarts
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i      `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down4olcott
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i       `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down3Fred. Zwarts
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i        `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down2olcott
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i         `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down78Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down77olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down76Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down75olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down73Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down72olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down71Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down70olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i   +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down8Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i   i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down7olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i   i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down6Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i   i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down5olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i   i   +- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1immibis
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i   i   `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down3Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i   i    `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down2olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i   i     `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i   `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down61Fred. Zwarts
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i    `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down60olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down50Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down49olcott
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down48Richard Damon
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down47olcott
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down45Richard Damon
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down44olcott
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down43Richard Damon
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down42olcott
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i   +- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1wij
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i   +- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1wij
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i   +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down37Richard Damon
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i   i`* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down36olcott
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i   i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down35Richard Damon
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i   i  `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down34olcott
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i   i   +* Re: Olcott is simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down32Richard Damon
3 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i   i   `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1Mikko
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i   +- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1wij
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   i   `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1Fred. Zwarts
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     i   `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1Fred. Zwarts
2 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   i     `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down9Fred. Zwarts
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     i   `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1immibis
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     +- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1immibis
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i i     `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down2joes
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i i `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1immibis
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i i `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1Fred. Zwarts
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i +* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down26Wasell
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down12Fred. Zwarts
1 Jun 24 i   i i i        i           `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise --- pinned down1immibis
4 Jun 24 i   i i i        `- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong --- Try to prove otherwise1olcott
30 May 24 i   i i +- Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong1immibis
1 Jun 24 i   i i `* Re: Two dozen people were simply wrong -- Only basis for rebuttal in the last 3 years6olcott
30 May 24 i   i `- Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets1Richard Damon
30 May 24 i   `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets16olcott
30 May 24 `* Re: D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly halt --- templates and infinite sets --- deciders38olcott

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