Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway?

Liste des GroupesRevenir à s logic 
Sujet : Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway?
De : richard (at) *nospam* damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Groupes : comp.theory sci.logic
Date : 03. Jun 2024, 01:34:08
Autres entêtes
Organisation : i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID : <v3j320$2qu72$17@i2pn2.org>
References : 1
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 6/2/24 8:16 PM, immibis wrote:
The halting problem says you can't find a Turing machine that tells whether executing each other Turing machine will halt. Simulation has nothing to do with the question.
Because it looks like an out to solve the question. He doesn't actual seem to care about halting (which is why he is so ignorant about it) but cares about the fact that the Halting Theorem (or pulling the same sort of proof) can show so many other things can't be done in other fields.
There ARE some principles that allow the use of a certain type of simulation, that of the UTM which is defined to just recreate the behavior of the machined described, and a simple way to do that is to build a simulator. (UTMs are not actually defined by simulation, but by results).
Olcott, in his typical method of playing with things he doesn't really understand, things that by tweeking the rules on the simulation, he might be able to get something close enough to Halting and using a UTM, that he can sneek his bad proof by, trying to replace the UTM simulation forever to show non-halting to trying to invoke an "induction-like" infinte set of "related" machines to try to argue that his infinite set of  "correct" (but partial) simulation is just as good the one infinite simulation in showing non-halting.
Not how he needs to keep things a bit undefined to avoid making the scam to obvious, and blocking his shell game.
The key of the shell game is making an H that aborts simulating a machine using it, some how "equal" to a DIFFERN machine built on a DIFFERENT H that does simulate forever, and get stuck.
If he can make you think these to input are "the same" because they are based things with the same name and doing things sort of the in the same way, just one is finite and the other never halts, he can pull a switcher-roo and show that the input to his actual H, which does halt, can be argued to not-halt as it was ok to swap it with the other machine.
Ultimately, this comes down to his H needs to change its behavior when the "pathological machine" uses it, which is why his H^ uses an embedded_H instead of just a copy of H, so he can try to argue it could be different.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
3 Jun 24 * Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway?172immibis
3 Jun 24 +* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway?2Richard Damon
3 Jun 24 i`- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway?1wij
3 Jun 24 +* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway?149Mike Terry
3 Jun 24 i+* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review19olcott
3 Jun 24 ii+- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review1Richard Damon
3 Jun 24 ii+- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review1immibis
3 Jun 24 ii`* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review16Mike Terry
3 Jun 24 ii `* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review15olcott
4 Jun 24 ii  +- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review1Richard Damon
4 Jun 24 ii  `* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review13Mike Terry
4 Jun 24 ii   `* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review12olcott
4 Jun 24 ii    `* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review11Richard Damon
4 Jun 24 ii     `* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review10olcott
4 Jun 24 ii      +* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review3Richard Damon
4 Jun 24 ii      i`* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review2olcott
5 Jun 24 ii      i `- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review1Richard Damon
4 Jun 24 ii      `* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review6Mike Terry
4 Jun 24 ii       `* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review5olcott
4 Jun 24 ii        +* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review3Richard Damon
4 Jun 24 ii        i`* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review2olcott
5 Jun 24 ii        i `- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review1Richard Damon
4 Jun 24 ii        `- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Mikes Review1immibis
3 Jun 24 i+- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway?1wij
3 Jun 24 i+- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway?1wij
3 Jun 24 i`* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway?127Ben Bacarisse
3 Jun 24 i +* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Ben's Review125olcott
3 Jun 24 i i+- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Ben's Review1immibis
3 Jun 24 i i+* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Ben's Review85Fred. Zwarts
3 Jun 24 i ii`* Mike Terry Reply to Fred Zwarts84olcott
4 Jun 24 i ii +* Re: Mike Terry Reply to Fred Zwarts82Fred. Zwarts
4 Jun 24 i ii i`* Re: Mike Terry Reply to Fred Zwarts81Fred. Zwarts
4 Jun 24 i ii i `* Re: Mike Terry Reply to Fred Zwarts80Mike Terry
4 Jun 24 i ii i  `* How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error79olcott
5 Jun 24 i ii i   +* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error28John Smith
5 Jun 24 i ii i   i`* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error27olcott
5 Jun 24 i ii i   i `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error26John Smith
5 Jun 24 i ii i   i  `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error25olcott
5 Jun 24 i ii i   i   `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error24John Smith
5 Jun 24 i ii i   i    +* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error5olcott
5 Jun 24 i ii i   i    i`* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error4John Smith
5 Jun 24 i ii i   i    i `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error3olcott
5 Jun 24 i ii i   i    i  +- Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error1joes
6 Jun 24 i ii i   i    i  `- Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error1Richard Damon
5 Jun 24 i ii i   i    `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error18Ben Bacarisse
5 Jun 24 i ii i   i     +* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting --- Ben's strawman deception2olcott
7 Jun 24 i ii i   i     i`- Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting --- Ben's strawman deception1olcon'tt
5 Jun 24 i ii i   i     `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error15Mike Terry
5 Jun 24 i ii i   i      `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error14olcott
5 Jun 24 i ii i   i       +* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error6John Smith
5 Jun 24 i ii i   i       i+* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error2olcott
5 Jun 24 i ii i   i       ii`- Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error1joes
6 Jun 24 i ii i   i       i`* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error3Mike Terry
6 Jun 24 i ii i   i       i `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error !!!2olcott
6 Jun 24 i ii i   i       i  `- Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error !!!1Richard Damon
5 Jun 24 i ii i   i       `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error7Mike Terry
5 Jun 24 i ii i   i        `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error6olcott
6 Jun 24 i ii i   i         `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error5Mike Terry
7 Jun 24 i ii i   i          `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error4olcott
7 Jun 24 i ii i   i           +- Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error1Richard Damon
7 Jun 24 i ii i   i           `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error2olcott
7 Jun 24 i ii i   i            `- Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error1Richard Damon
5 Jun 24 i ii i   +- Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error1Richard Damon
5 Jun 24 i ii i   `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error49olcott
6 Jun 24 i ii i    +- Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error1Richard Damon
6 Jun 24 i ii i    `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error47olcott
7 Jun 24 i ii i     +* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Ben's 10/2022 analysis45olcott
7 Jun 24 i ii i     i+* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Ben's 10/2022 analysis13Python
7 Jun 24 i ii i     ii`* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Ben's 10/2022 analysis12olcott
7 Jun 24 i ii i     ii +* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Ben's 10/2022 analysis7Python
7 Jun 24 i ii i     ii i`* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Ben's 10/2022 analysis6olcott
7 Jun 24 i ii i     ii i +- Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Ben's 10/2022 analysis1Richard Damon
7 Jun 24 i ii i     ii i `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Ben's 10/2022 analysis4olcott
7 Jun 24 i ii i     ii i  +- Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Ben's 10/2022 analysis1Richard Damon
8 Jun 24 i ii i     ii i  `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Ben's 10/2022 analysis ---2olcott
8 Jun 24 i ii i     ii i   `- Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Ben's 10/2022 analysis ---1Richard Damon
7 Jun 24 i ii i     ii +- Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Ben's 10/2022 analysis1Richard Damon
7 Jun 24 i ii i     ii `* Re: How Partial Simulations incorrectly determine non-halting ---Ben's 10/2022 analysis3olcott
7 Jun 24 i ii i     ii  +- Re: How Partial Simulations incorrectly determine non-halting ---Ben's 10/2022 analysis1news2
7 Jun 24 i ii i     ii  `- Re: How Partial Simulations incorrectly determine non-halting ---Ben's 10/2022 analysis1Richard Damon
7 Jun 24 i ii i     i+- Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Ben's 10/2022 analysis1Richard Damon
7 Jun 24 i ii i     i+* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Ben's 10/2022 analysis24olcott
7 Jun 24 i ii i     ii+- Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Ben's 10/2022 analysis1Richard Damon
8 Jun 24 i ii i     ii`* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Should I quit Richard at this point?22olcott
8 Jun 24 i ii i     ii `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Should I quit Richard at this point?21Richard Damon
8 Jun 24 i ii i     ii  `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Should I quit Richard at this point?20olcott
8 Jun 24 i ii i     ii   `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Should I quit Richard at this point?19Richard Damon
8 Jun 24 i ii i     ii    `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Should I quit Richard at this point?18olcott
8 Jun 24 i ii i     ii     `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Should I quit Richard at this point?17Richard Damon
8 Jun 24 i ii i     ii      `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Should I quit Richard at this point?16olcott
8 Jun 24 i ii i     ii       `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Should I quit Richard at this point?15Richard Damon
8 Jun 24 i ii i     ii        `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Should I quit Richard at this point?14olcott
8 Jun 24 i ii i     ii         `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Should I quit Richard at this point?13Richard Damon
8 Jun 24 i ii i     ii          `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Should I quit Richard at this point?12olcott
8 Jun 24 i ii i     ii           `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Should I quit Richard at this point?11Richard Damon
8 Jun 24 i ii i     ii            `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Should I quit Richard at this point?10olcott
8 Jun 24 i ii i     ii             `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Should I quit Richard at this point?9Richard Damon
8 Jun 24 i ii i     ii              `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Should I quit Richard at this point?8olcott
8 Jun 24 i ii i     ii               `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Should I quit Richard at this point?7Richard Damon
8 Jun 24 i ii i     ii                `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Should I quit Richard at this point?6olcott
9 Jun 24 i ii i     ii                 `* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Should I quit Richard at this point?5Richard Damon
7 Jun 24 i ii i     i`* Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Ben's 10/2022 analysis6joes
7 Jun 24 i ii i     `- Re: How Partial Simulations correctly determine non-halting ---Mike Terry Error1Richard Damon
4 Jun 24 i ii `- Re: Mike Terry Reply to Fred Zwarts1Fred. Zwarts
4 Jun 24 i i+- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway? --- Ben's Review1Richard Damon
4 Jun 24 i i`* Halting Problem is wrong two different ways37olcott
3 Jun 24 i `- Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway?1Mike Terry
3 Jun 24 `* Re: Why does Olcott care about simulation, anyway?20Fred. Zwarts

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