Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about === Exclude Non-Truth-bearers Knucklehead !!!

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Sujet : Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about === Exclude Non-Truth-bearers Knucklehead !!!
De : polcott333 (at) *nospam* gmail.com (olcott)
Groupes : sci.logic
Date : 15. Mar 2025, 19:59:22
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <vr4ima$385p$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 3/15/2025 6:16 AM, joes wrote:
Am Fri, 14 Mar 2025 22:54:51 -0500 schrieb olcott:
On 3/14/2025 8:57 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 3/14/25 3:01 PM, olcott wrote:
On 3/14/2025 1:42 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 3/14/25 10:27 AM, olcott wrote:
On 3/13/2025 6:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-03-11 23:26:28 +0000, olcott said:
On 3/11/2025 6:15 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-03-10 15:36:28 +0000, olcott said:
>
I created Minimal Type Theory such that self-reference can be
expressed concisely and correctly.
Have you pbulished that "Minimal Type Theory" or put it to a web
page?
Without a pointer to it there is no point to mention it. Of
course one can create a language that can express a self
reference but why would one?
>
https://www.researchgate.net/
publication/315367846_Minimal_Type_Theory_MTT
Does not define any theory.
>
https://www.researchgate.net/
publication/331859461_Minimal_Type_Theory_YACC_BNF
The article 315367846_Minimal_Type_Theory_MTT says that "Types must
be expressly stated in Minimal Type Theory" but the syntax allows
untyped quantification.
>
https://www.researchgate.net/
publication/317953772_Provability_with_Minimal_Type_Theory
This article uses @ as definition article but a comment in the
syntax says that := is used.
None of the articles defines what is a valid proof in Minimal Type
Theory.
>
We need such a language so that we don't stupidly fail to
understands how this can convert expressions of language into
non-truth-bearers having no truth value.
Until we do this we get confused into believing that such
expressions are in any way undecidable.
So is the Liar sentence false or not?
 
Apparently this cannot be expressed concisely and correctly in
any formal logic system.
A self reference cannot be expressed in an uninterpreted formal
language.
Sometimes some symbols and expressions are interpreted to
represent themselves or other symbols or expressions. For
example, the symbol 0 of arthmetic can be interpreted to mean the
symbol 0 and the term S0 the sqence of symbols S and 0.
>
LP := ~True(LP)
has all of its semantics encoded in its syntax, thus no
interpretation required.
>
Without decoding no semantics can be extracted from the syntax.
>
LP := ~True(LP) obtains its entire semantics from the expression.
>
But none of your arguments have talked about an expression that
derives itself from that expression
 
Because of the cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation
sequence LP cannot derive its semantic meaning from anything else:
~True(~True(~True(~True(~True(~True(...))))))
But the p that can be developed as a statement in the languaged,
based on the idea in the metalanguge that must be true if and only if
it is false, doesn't.
 
Normally expressions derive their semantics from a knowledge
ontology inheritance hierarchy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology_(information_science)
Right, like Godel's expression G specifically derives its semantics
from the natured of the system F and the mathematics the system F
creates. And, in the meta we can construct a mathematical statement
in F, whose truth is the direct opposite of its provability, and thus
must be True and Unprovable, as it can't be False but Provably True.
 
of the set of general knowledge of the world encoded as Rudolf
Carnap meaning postulates using something like Montague Grammar.
Each unique sense meaning has its own GUID.
WHich is irrelevent here, as Formal systems don't have that problem.
Your problem
In my type theory based system there is no need for any separate
language and meta-language.
*Need*? You can always construct a metalanguage.
 
Rudolf Carnap meaning postulates are arranged in an inheritance
hierarchy where each unique sense meaning is assigned its own GUID.
The language is something like Montague Grammar.
LP := ~True(LP) is rejected as semantically incorrect.
but the existing systens aren't built on your "Type Theory" so you need
to show that it works in THOSE systems to use it,
Discard all inferior systems.
 
I guess you are just admitting that you don't understand what you are
talking about, and your "logic" assumes you can just make up crap and
call it true,
We axiomatize all the basic facts of the world (facts that cannot be
derived on the basis of other facts).
Then we plug everything else into an inheritance hierarchy knowledge
ontology.
Anything that cannot be derived by applying Truth preserving operations
to these basic facts is either untrue or unknown.
This gives us a True() predicate that always works except for unknowns.
Wonderful. So not always.
 
It certainty does not get totally confused by self-contradictory
expressions. These simply cannot be derived by applying truth preserving
operations to basic facts.
Yeah, it can't decide their truth value.
 
That is like me saying that you are to stupid to
correctly determine the truth value of this sentence:
"What time is it?"
--
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

Date Sujet#  Auteur
9 Mar 25 * The key undecidable instance that I know about108olcott
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9 Mar 25 +* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about90Richard Damon
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9 Mar 25 i `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about88Richard Damon
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11 Mar 25 i         ii`* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY43Mikko
12 Mar 25 i         ii +* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY6olcott
12 Mar 25 i         ii i+- Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY1Richard Damon
12 Mar 25 i         ii i`* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY4Mikko
12 Mar 25 i         ii i `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY3olcott
12 Mar 25 i         ii i  +- Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY1Richard Damon
13 Mar 25 i         ii i  `- Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY1Mikko
15 Mar 25 i         ii `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY36olcott
15 Mar 25 i         ii  +* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY24Richard Damon
16 Mar 25 i         ii  i`* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY23olcott
16 Mar 25 i         ii  i `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY22Richard Damon
16 Mar 25 i         ii  i  `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY21olcott
16 Mar 25 i         ii  i   `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY20Richard Damon
16 Mar 25 i         ii  i    `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY19olcott
16 Mar 25 i         ii  i     `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY18Richard Damon
17 Mar 25 i         ii  i      `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY17olcott
17 Mar 25 i         ii  i       `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY16Richard Damon
17 Mar 25 i         ii  i        `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY15olcott
17 Mar 25 i         ii  i         `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY14Richard Damon
17 Mar 25 i         ii  i          `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY13olcott
18 Mar 25 i         ii  i           +- Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY1Richard Damon
18 Mar 25 i         ii  i           `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY11Mikko
19 Mar 25 i         ii  i            `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY10olcott
19 Mar 25 i         ii  i             +* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY3Richard Damon
19 Mar 25 i         ii  i             i`* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY2olcott
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20 Mar 25 i         ii  i             `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY6Mikko
21 Mar 25 i         ii  i              `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY5olcott
21 Mar 25 i         ii  i               `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY4Mikko
21 Mar 25 i         ii  i                `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY3olcott
22 Mar 25 i         ii  i                 +- Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY1Richard Damon
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16 Mar 25 i         ii  `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY11Mikko
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17 Mar 25 i         ii     `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY8olcott
20 Mar 25 i         ii      `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY7Mikko
20 Mar 25 i         ii       `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY6olcott
21 Mar 25 i         ii        +- Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY1Richard Damon
21 Mar 25 i         ii        `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY4Mikko
21 Mar 25 i         ii         `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY3olcott
22 Mar 25 i         ii          +- Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY1Richard Damon
22 Mar 25 i         ii          `- Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY1Mikko
15 Mar 25 i         i`* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY29olcott
15 Mar 25 i         i +* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY16dbush
15 Mar 25 i         i i`* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY15olcott
15 Mar 25 i         i i `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY14dbush
15 Mar 25 i         i i  `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY13olcott
15 Mar 25 i         i i   `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY12dbush
16 Mar 25 i         i i    `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY11olcott
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16 Mar 25 i         i i      `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY9olcott
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16 Mar 25 i         i i         `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY6dbush
16 Mar 25 i         i i          `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY5olcott
16 Mar 25 i         i i           `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY4dbush
16 Mar 25 i         i i            `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY3olcott
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15 Mar 25 i         i +* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY5Richard Damon
16 Mar 25 i         i i`* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY4olcott
16 Mar 25 i         i i `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY3Richard Damon
16 Mar 25 i         i i  `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY2olcott
16 Mar 25 i         i i   `- Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY1Richard Damon
17 Mar 25 i         i `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY7Mikko
17 Mar 25 i         i  `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY6olcott
18 Mar 25 i         i   `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY5Mikko
19 Mar 25 i         i    `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY4olcott
19 Mar 25 i         i     `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY3Mikko
20 Mar 25 i         i      `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY2olcott
20 Mar 25 i         i       `- Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY1Mikko
11 Mar 25 i         `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY3Richard Damon
12 Mar 25 i          `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY2olcott
12 Mar 25 i           `- Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about --- Truth-bearers ONLY1Richard Damon
10 Mar 25 `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about15Mikko
10 Mar 25  `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about14olcott
11 Mar 25   `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about13Mikko
12 Mar 25    +* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about11olcott
13 Mar 25    i`* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about10Mikko
14 Mar 25    i `* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about9olcott
14 Mar 25    i  +* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about7Richard Damon
14 Mar 25    i  i`* Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about6olcott
15 Mar 25    i  `- Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about1Mikko
15 Mar 25    `- Re: The key undecidable instance that I know about1olcott

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