Re: Simple enough for every reader?

Liste des GroupesRevenir à s logic 
Sujet : Re: Simple enough for every reader?
De : wolfgang.mueckenheim (at) *nospam* tha.de (WM)
Groupes : sci.logic
Date : 27. May 2025, 16:09:30
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <1014kja$2l9jj$4@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 27.05.2025 14:01, Mikko wrote:
On 2025-05-26 13:38:00 +0000, WM said:
 No alternative view is known to be better.
That does not make this view good.

But even pure mathematics proves that most natural numbers will never be definable:
>
{1} has infinitely many (ℵo) successors.
 (2) there are infinitely many (ℵo) possible definitions.
No. All natural numbers can be manipulated collectively, for instance subtracted: ℕ \ {1, 2, 3, ...} = { }. Here all have disappeared.
Could all natural numbers be distinguished by individually defining each one, then this subtraction could also happen but, caused by the well-order, a last number would disappear.

If {1, 2, 3, ..., n} has infinitely many (ℵo) successors, then {1, 2, 3, ..., n, n+1} has infinitely many (ℵo) successors, for every n that can be defined.
 You can't formulate that as a logically or mathematically valid proof.
 
It is a valid proof by induction. Claim it for all natural numbers. Get a contradiction. But perhaps you prefer geometry?
The set of finite initial segments of natural numbers is potentially infinite but not actually infinite. (Actual infinity is a fixed number greater than all natural numbers.) The height of the figure
{1}
{1, 2}
{1, 2, 3}
...
cannot be greater than its width which by definition is not greater than all natural numbers.
Regards, WM

Date Sujet#  Auteur
17 May 25 * Simple enough for every reader?58WM
18 May 25 +* Re: Simple enough for every reader?24Mikko
18 May 25 i+- Re: Simple enough for every reader?1Ross Finlayson
18 May 25 i`* Re: Simple enough for every reader?22WM
18 May 25 i +* Re: Simple enough for every reader?5Ross Finlayson
18 May 25 i i`* Re: Simple enough for every reader?4WM
19 May 25 i i `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?3Mikko
19 May 25 i i  `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?2WM
20 May 25 i i   `- Re: Simple enough for every reader?1Mikko
19 May 25 i `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?16Mikko
19 May 25 i  `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?15WM
20 May 25 i   `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?14Mikko
20 May 25 i    `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?13WM
22 May10:10 i     `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?12Mikko
22 May11:30 i      `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?11WM
23 May08:43 i       `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?10Mikko
23 May09:31 i        `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?9WM
24 May09:13 i         `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?8Mikko
24 May12:29 i          `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?7WM
25 May11:42 i           `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?6Mikko
25 May12:38 i            `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?5WM
26 May11:26 i             `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?4Mikko
26 May14:38 i              `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?3WM
27 May13:01 i               `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?2Mikko
27 May16:09 i                `- Re: Simple enough for every reader?1WM
18 May 25 `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?33Ben Bacarisse
19 May 25  +* Re: Simple enough for every reader?2olcott
19 May 25  i`- Re: Simple enough for every reader?1WM
19 May 25  `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?30WM
20 May 25   `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?29Ben Bacarisse
20 May 25    +* Re: Simple enough for every reader?3Mikko
20 May 25    i+- Re: Simple enough for every reader?1WM
21 May01:51    i`- Re: Simple enough for every reader?1Ben Bacarisse
20 May 25    `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?25WM
21 May02:17     `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?24Ben Bacarisse
21 May12:02      `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?23WM
23 May14:21       `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?22Ben Bacarisse
24 May09:18        +* Re: Simple enough for every reader?8Mikko
25 May02:09        i`* Re: Simple enough for every reader?7Ben Bacarisse
25 May11:43        i `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?6Mikko
26 May01:56        i  `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?5Ben Bacarisse
26 May11:30        i   `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?4Mikko
27 May00:21        i    `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?3Ben Bacarisse
27 May13:15        i     `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?2Mikko
27 May16:18        i      `- Re: Simple enough for every reader?1WM
24 May11:50        `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?13WM
25 May02:27         `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?12Ben Bacarisse
25 May09:29          `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?11WM
26 May01:52           `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?10Ben Bacarisse
26 May11:17            +* Re: Simple enough for every reader?7WM
26 May11:44            i+* Re: Simple enough for every reader?4Mikko
26 May14:44            ii`* Re: Simple enough for every reader?3WM
27 May13:27            ii `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?2Mikko
27 May16:24            ii  `- Re: Simple enough for every reader?1WM
27 May00:57            i`* Re: Simple enough for every reader?2Ben Bacarisse
27 May13:15            i `- Re: Simple enough for every reader?1WM
26 May14:30            `* Re: Simple enough for every reader?2WM
27 May00:58             `- Re: Simple enough for every reader?1Ben Bacarisse

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