Sujet : Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers"
De : wolfgang.mueckenheim (at) *nospam* tha.de (WM)
Groupes : sci.mathDate : 02. Apr 2025, 15:10:10
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <vsjgg3$1r7cv$5@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 27.03.2025 22:34, joes wrote:
Am Thu, 27 Mar 2025 20:50:00 +0100 schrieb WM:
Am 27.03.2025 um 15:58 schrieb joes:
Am Wed, 26 Mar 2025 21:09:03 +0100 schrieb WM:
>
At finite steps, but not in the limit.
Countability is proved without limits. Bijections are one-to-one
without limit.
I have no idea what you are talking about. What can be proved to be
countable without resorting to limits?
Limits deviate from countability.
You are writing way too short. There are countable infinities,
whether you like that word or not.
Countable infinities are claimed by Cantor, but no limits.
I didn't say anything about bijections not being one-to-one, nor about
them having limits??? The transformation from the initial to the final
matrix can not be achieved in finitely many steps.
That is true but contradicts Cantor's theory according to which every
pair has a finite index. Every finite index n has only n-1 predecessors.
There's no contradiction. The limit is not a term of the sequence.
The limit is not involved.
Argumente angeführt, wonach diese Abbildungen nur im Grenzfalle gelten oder überhaupt niemals vollendet sind. Solche Argumente müssen mit Entschiedenheit zurückgewiesen werden. Es geht im Folgenden ausschließlich um Cantors Behauptungen, die hier zu diesem Zwecke eingefügt werden.
"Werden nun die Zahlen p/q in einer solchen Reihenfolge gedacht, [...] so kommt jede Zahl p/q an eine ganz bestimmte Stelle einer einfach unendlichen Reihe," [E. Zermelo: "Georg Cantor – Gesammelte Abhandlungen mathematischen und philosophischen Inhalts", Springer, Berlin (1932) S. 126]
"Die so definirte unendliche Reihe hat nun das merkwürdige an sich, sämmtliche positiven rationalen Zahlen und jede von ihnen nur einmal an einer bestimmten Stelle zu enthalten." [G. Cantor, Brief an R. Lipschitz (19 Nov 1883)]
"so erhält man den Inbegriff (ω) aller reellen algebraischen Zahlen [...] und kann mit Rücksicht auf diese Anordnung von der ten algebraischen Zahl reden, wobei keine einzige aus dem Inbegriffe (ω) vergessen ist." [E. Zermelo: "Georg Cantor – Gesammelte Abhandlungen mathematischen und philosophischen Inhalts", Springer, Berlin (1932) S. 116]
"so daß jedes Element der Menge an einer bestimmten Stelle dieser Reihe steht" [E. Zermelo: "Georg Cantor – Gesammelte Abhandlungen mathematischen und philosophischen Inhalts", Springer, Berlin (1932) S. 152]
Man beachte diese an Klarheit nichts zu wünschen übrig lassenden Formulierungen: sämtliche, alle, und jede an einer bestimmten Stelle, te Zahl, wobei keine einzige vergessen ist.
Regards, WM
Date | Sujet | # | | Auteur |
12 Mar 25 | The existence of dark numbers proven by the thinned out harmonic series | 451 | | WM |
12 Mar 25 |  Re: The existence of dark numbers proven by the thinned out harmonic series | 450 | | Alan Mackenzie |
12 Mar 25 |   Re: The existence of dark numbers proven by the thinned out harmonic series | 449 | | WM |
12 Mar 25 |    The non-existence of "dark numbers" [was: The existence of dark numbers proven by the thinned out harmonic series] | 448 | | Alan Mackenzie |
12 Mar 25 |     Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" [was: The existence of dark numbers proven by the thinned out harmonic series] | 444 | | WM |
12 Mar 25 |      Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 414 | | Alan Mackenzie |
12 Mar 25 |       Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 413 | | WM |
12 Mar 25 |        Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 412 | | Alan Mackenzie |
12 Mar 25 |         Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 6 | | Moebius |
13 Mar 25 |          Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 1 | | WM |
13 Mar 25 |          Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 4 | | Alan Mackenzie |
13 Mar 25 |           Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 3 | | Moebius |
13 Mar 25 |            Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 2 | | WM |
13 Mar 25 |             Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 1 | | joes |
13 Mar 25 |         Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 401 | | WM |
13 Mar 25 |          Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 399 | | Alan Mackenzie |
13 Mar 25 |           Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 397 | | WM |
13 Mar 25 |            Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 3 | | joes |
13 Mar 25 |             Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 2 | | WM |
14 Mar 25 |              Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 1 | | joes |
13 Mar 25 |            Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 393 | | Alan Mackenzie |
14 Mar 25 |             Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 392 | | WM |
14 Mar 25 |              Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 7 | | FromTheRafters |
14 Mar 25 |               Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 6 | | WM |
14 Mar 25 |                Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 5 | | FromTheRafters |
14 Mar 25 |                 Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 4 | | WM |
15 Mar 25 |                  Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 3 | | FromTheRafters |
15 Mar 25 |                   Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" (thread too long, nothing in it) | 1 | | Ross Finlayson |
15 Mar 25 |                   Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 1 | | WM |
14 Mar 25 |              Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 383 | | Alan Mackenzie |
14 Mar 25 |               Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 382 | | WM |
14 Mar 25 |                Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 380 | | Alan Mackenzie |
14 Mar 25 |                 Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 379 | | WM |
15 Mar 25 |                  Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 371 | | Alan Mackenzie |
15 Mar 25 |                   Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 370 | | WM |
15 Mar 25 |                    Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 4 | | joes |
15 Mar 25 |                     Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 3 | | WM |
15 Mar 25 |                      Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 2 | | joes |
15 Mar 25 |                       Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 1 | | WM |
15 Mar 25 |                    Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 362 | | Alan Mackenzie |
15 Mar 25 |                     Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 361 | | WM |
16 Mar 25 |                      Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 356 | | Alan Mackenzie |
16 Mar 25 |                       Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 355 | | WM |
16 Mar 25 |                        Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 268 | | Jim Burns |
16 Mar 25 |                         Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 267 | | WM |
16 Mar 25 |                          Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 266 | | Jim Burns |
16 Mar 25 |                           Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 265 | | WM |
16 Mar 25 |                            Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 264 | | Jim Burns |
16 Mar 25 |                             Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 263 | | WM |
17 Mar 25 |                              Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 262 | | Jim Burns |
17 Mar 25 |                               Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 261 | | WM |
17 Mar 25 |                                Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 260 | | Jim Burns |
17 Mar 25 |                                 Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 259 | | WM |
17 Mar 25 |                                  Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 258 | | Jim Burns |
18 Mar 25 |                                   Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 257 | | WM |
18 Mar 25 |                                    Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 256 | | Jim Burns |
18 Mar 25 |                                     Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 255 | | WM |
19 Mar 25 |                                      Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 254 | | Jim Burns |
19 Mar 25 |                                       Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 253 | | WM |
19 Mar 25 |                                        Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 252 | | Jim Burns |
20 Mar 25 |                                         Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 251 | | WM |
20 Mar 25 |                                          Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 250 | | Jim Burns |
20 Mar 25 |                                           Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 249 | | WM |
20 Mar 25 |                                            Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 248 | | Jim Burns |
21 Mar 25 |                                             Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 247 | | WM |
21 Mar 25 |                                              Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 246 | | Jim Burns |
21 Mar 25 |                                               Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 245 | | WM |
21 Mar 25 |                                                The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 [Was: The non-existence of "dark numbers"] | 183 | | Alan Mackenzie |
21 Mar 25 |                                                 Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 [Was: The non-existence of "dark numbers"] | 40 | | Moebius |
21 Mar 25 |                                                  Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 [Was: The non-existence of "dark numbers"] | 37 | | Moebius |
21 Mar 25 |                                                   Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 [Was: The non-existence of "dark numbers"] | 2 | | Moebius |
21 Mar 25 |                                                    Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 [Was: The non-existence of "dark numbers"] | 1 | | Moebius |
21 Mar 25 |                                                   Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 | 34 | | Alan Mackenzie |
21 Mar 25 |                                                    Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 | 32 | | Moebius |
22 Mar 25 |                                                     Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 | 1 | | Ross Finlayson |
22 Mar 25 |                                                     Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 | 29 | | Ralf Bader |
22 Mar 25 |                                                      Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 | 28 | | Moebius |
22 Mar 25 |                                                       Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 | 2 | | Moebius |
22 Mar 25 |                                                        Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 | 1 | | Moebius |
23 Mar 25 |                                                       Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 | 25 | | Ross Finlayson |
23 Mar 25 |                                                        Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 | 24 | | Jim Burns |
23 Mar 25 |                                                         Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 (theory of theories) | 23 | | Ross Finlayson |
24 Mar 25 |                                                          Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 (theory of theories) | 19 | | Chris M. Thomasson |
24 Mar 25 |                                                           Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 (theory of theories) | 18 | | Jim Burns |
24 Mar 25 |                                                            Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 (theory of theories) | 11 | | Ross Finlayson |
24 Mar 25 |                                                             Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 (theory of theories) | 10 | | Jim Burns |
25 Mar 25 |                                                              Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 (theory of theories) | 9 | | Ross Finlayson |
25 Mar 25 |                                                               Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 (theory of theories) | 3 | | Jim Burns |
25 Mar 25 |                                                                Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 (theory of theories) | 2 | | Ross Finlayson |
25 Mar 25 |                                                                 Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 (theory of theories) | 1 | | Jim Burns |
25 Mar 25 |                                                               Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 (theory of theories) | 5 | | Jim Burns |
25 Mar 25 |                                                                Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 (theory of theories) | 4 | | Ross Finlayson |
25 Mar 25 |                                                                 Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 (theory of theories) | 3 | | Jim Burns |
25 Mar 25 |                                                                  Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 (theory of theories) | 2 | | Ross Finlayson |
25 Mar 25 |                                                                   Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 (theory of theories) | 1 | | Jim Burns |
26 Mar 25 |                                                            Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 (theory of theories) | 6 | | Chris M. Thomasson |
27 Mar 25 |                                                             Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 (theory of theories) | 5 | | Jim Burns |
27 Mar 25 |                                                              Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 (theory of theories) | 4 | | FromTheRafters |
27 Mar 25 |                                                               Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 (theory of theories) | 1 | | Jim Burns |
27 Mar 25 |                                                               Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 (theory of theories) | 2 | | Ross Finlayson |
27 Mar 25 |                                                                Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 (theory of theories) | 1 | | Ross Finlayson |
24 Mar 25 |                                                          Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 (theory of theories) | 3 | | Jim Burns |
22 Mar 25 |                                                     Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 | 1 | | WM |
22 Mar 25 |                                                    Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 | 1 | | WM |
22 Mar 25 |                                                  Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 [Was: The non-existence of "dark numbers"] | 2 | | WM |
22 Mar 25 |                                                 Re: The reality of sets, on a scale of 1 to 10 [Was: The non-existence of "dark numbers"] | 142 | | WM |
21 Mar 25 |                                                Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 3 | | FromTheRafters |
22 Mar 25 |                                                Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 58 | | Jim Burns |
16 Mar 25 |                        Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 85 | | Alan Mackenzie |
16 Mar 25 |                        Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 1 | | joes |
16 Mar 25 |                      Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 4 | | joes |
15 Mar 25 |                    Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 3 | | Chris M. Thomasson |
15 Mar 25 |                  Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 7 | | joes |
14 Mar 25 |                Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 1 | | joes |
14 Mar 25 |              Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 1 | | joes |
14 Mar 25 |           Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 1 | | Chris M. Thomasson |
13 Mar 25 |          Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 1 | | joes |
13 Mar 25 |         Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" | 4 | | Ben Bacarisse |
12 Mar 25 |      Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" [was: The existence of dark numbers proven by the thinned out harmonic series] | 29 | | Jim Burns |
12 Mar 25 |     Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" [was: The existence of dark numbers proven by the thinned out harmonic series] | 2 | | FromTheRafters |
12 Mar 25 |     Re: The non-existence of "dark numbers" [was: The existence of dark numbers proven by the thinned out harmonic series] | 1 | | Jim Burns |