Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets

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Sujet : Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets
De : d.heidorn (at) *nospam* t-online.de (Dieter Heidorn)
Groupes : sci.math
Date : 24. Mar 2024, 22:02:50
Autres entêtes
Message-ID : <l6binqF7ljpU1@mid.individual.net>
References : 1 2
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WM schrieb:
 Does ℕ = {1, 2, 3, ...} contain all natural numbers such that none
can be added?
 
Sure - adding a number that is already contained in ℕ, doesn't change
the cardinality of the set, since equal elements are counted as one
element.
But you can do the following described by Cantor:
    "That ℵo is a transfinite number, that is to say, is
     not equal to any finite number μ, follows from the
     simple fact that, if to the aggregate {ν} is added a
     new element e_0, the union-aggregate ({ν}, e_0 ) is
     equivalent to the original aggregate {ν}. For we
     can think of this reciprocally univocal correspondence
     between them: to the element e_0 of the first
     corresponds the element 1 of the second, and to the
     element ν of the first corresponds the element ν + 1 of
     the other. By §3 we thus have
        (2)      ℵo + 1 = ℵo "
(Georg Cantor:
  Contributions to the founding of the theory of tranfinite numbers.
  Dover Publications, 1915; p.104)

If so, then the bijection of ℕ with E = {2, 4, 6, ...} would prove
that both sets have the same number of elements.
Infinite sets don't have a "number of elements". This concept (which can
only be used for finite sets) is generalized for infinite sets by the
concept of "transfinite cardinal numbers".
And indeed: there is a bijection from the set of natural numbers ℕ
to the set of even natural numbers 𝔼 = {2, 4, 6, ..}.
    f: ℕ → 𝔼 ,  n ↦ 2n
This function is both injective (or one-to-one) and surjective (or
onto), thus it is bijective.

Then the completion of E resulting in E = {1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, ...}
would double the number of its elements. Then there are more natural
numbers than were originally in ℕ.
Rubbish. The cardinality of an infinite set is described by an
transfinite cardinal number and not by a finite "number of elements".
Your problem is: You try to apply facts, that hold for finite sets,
on infinite sets. That doesn't work.
Dieter Heidorn

Date Sujet#  Auteur
24 Mar 24 * V1414WM
24 Mar 24 +* Re: V20Chris M. Thomasson
24 Mar 24 i`* Re: V19WM
24 Mar 24 i `* Re: V18Chris M. Thomasson
24 Mar 24 i  `* Re: V17WM
24 Mar 24 i   +* Re: V15Chris M. Thomasson
25 Mar 24 i   i`* Re: V14WM
26 Mar 24 i   i +* Re: V11Chris M. Thomasson
26 Mar 24 i   i i`* Re: V10WM
26 Mar 24 i   i i +* Re: V6Chris M. Thomasson
27 Mar 24 i   i i i`* Re: V5WM
27 Mar 24 i   i i i `* Re: V4Chris M. Thomasson
28 Mar 24 i   i i i  `* Re: V3WM
28 Mar 24 i   i i i   `* Re: V2Chris M. Thomasson
28 Mar 24 i   i i i    `- Re: V1Chris M. Thomasson
26 Mar 24 i   i i +- Re: V1Chris M. Thomasson
26 Mar 24 i   i i `* Re: V2Chris M. Thomasson
26 Mar 24 i   i i  `- Re: V1Chris M. Thomasson
11 Jun 24 i   i `* Re: V2Chris M. Thomasson
11 Jun 24 i   i  `- Re: V1Moebius
24 Mar 24 i   `- Re: V1Chris M. Thomasson
24 Mar 24 +* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1383WM
24 Mar 24 i+* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1301Dieter Heidorn
25 Mar 24 ii`* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1300WM
25 Mar 24 ii +* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets2Richard Damon
25 Mar 24 ii i`- Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1WM
25 Mar 24 ii `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1297Jim Burns
26 Mar 24 ii  `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1296WM
26 Mar 24 ii   `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1295Jim Burns
26 Mar 24 ii    +* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1283Chris M. Thomasson
26 Mar 24 ii    i`* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1282Jim Burns
27 Mar 24 ii    i `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1281WM
27 Mar 24 ii    i  +* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1279Jim Burns
28 Mar 24 ii    i  i`* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1278WM
28 Mar 24 ii    i  i +- Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1Chris M. Thomasson
29 Mar 24 ii    i  i `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1276Richard Damon
30 Mar 24 ii    i  i  `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1275WM
30 Mar 24 ii    i  i   `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1274Richard Damon
31 Mar 24 ii    i  i    `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1273WM
31 Mar 24 ii    i  i     +* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1271Richard Damon
1 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i`* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1270WM
1 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i +- Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1FromTheRafters
2 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1268Richard Damon
2 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i  `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1267WM
2 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i   `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1266Jim Burns
2 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i    +* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets9Moebius
2 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i    i`* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets8Jim Burns
3 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i    i +- Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1Moebius
3 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i    i `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets6Jim Burns
3 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i    i  `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets5Jim Burns
4 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i    i   `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets4Ross Finlayson
4 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i    i    `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets3Jim Burns
5 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i    i     `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets2Jim Burns
6 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i    i      `- Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1Jim Burns
3 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i    `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1256WM
3 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     +* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1223FromTheRafters
4 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     i+- Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1Ross Finlayson
4 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     i+* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1220WM
4 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii+* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets7Richard Damon
4 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     iii`* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets6WM
4 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     iii +* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets4Richard Damon
5 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     iii i`* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets3WM
5 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     iii i `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets2Richard Damon
6 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     iii i  `- Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1Ross Finlayson
4 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     iii `- Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1Tom Bola
5 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii`* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1212FromTheRafters
6 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1211WM
6 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii  `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1210Richard Damon
6 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii   `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1209WM
6 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii    `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1208Richard Damon
6 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii     `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1207WM
6 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii      `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1206Richard Damon
7 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii       `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1205WM
7 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii        `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1204Richard Damon
7 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii         `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1203WM
7 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii          `* how1202Richard Damon
8 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii           `* Re: how1201WM
9 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii            `* Re: how1200Richard Damon
9 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             +* Re: how1180WM
10 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i+* Re: how2Chris M. Thomasson
10 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             ii`- Re: how1Chris M. Thomasson
10 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i`* Re: how1177Richard Damon
10 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i +* Re: how8WM
11 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i i`* Re: how7Richard Damon
11 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i i `* Re: how6WM
12 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i i  `* Re: how5Richard Damon
12 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i i   `* Re: how4WM
12 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i i    `* Re: how3Richard Damon
12 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i i     `* Re: how2WM
12 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i i      `- Re: how1Richard Damon
10 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i +* Re: how1167WM
11 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i i+- Re: how1FromTheRafters
11 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i i`* Re: how1165Richard Damon
11 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i i `* Re: how1164WM
11 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i i  +* Re: how1155Jim Burns
12 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i i  i`* Re: how1154WM
12 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i i  i +* Re: how29Tom Bola
12 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i i  i i+* Re: how26WM
12 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i i  i ii+- Re: how1Tom Bola
12 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i i  i ii+* Re: how23Tom Bola
12 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i i  i iii`* Re: how22WM
12 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i i  i ii`- Re: how1Chris M. Thomasson
12 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i i  i i`* Re: how2Chris M. Thomasson
12 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i i  i `* Re: how1124Jim Burns
12 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i i  `* Re: how8Richard Damon
11 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             i `- Re: how1Chris M. Thomasson
18 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     ii             `* Re: how19Phil Carmody
5 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     i`- Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1FromTheRafters
4 Apr 24 ii    i  i     i     `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets32Jim Burns
31 Mar 24 ii    i  i     `- Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1Chris M. Thomasson
28 Mar 24 ii    i  `- Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets1Richard Damon
26 Mar 24 ii    `* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets11WM
24 Mar 24 i+* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets4Richard Damon
24 Mar 24 i+* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets71FromTheRafters
31 Mar 24 i`* Re: Contradiction of bijections as a measure for infinite sets6Moebius
24 Mar 24 +* Re: V6FromTheRafters
2 Jun 24 `* Re: V4Moebius

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