Re: Can a Machine become self-aware?

Jan Panteltje wrote:

 

anthk <anthk@openbsd.home> wrote or quoted:

On 2025-06-14, The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

Can a Machine become self-aware?

We are part of the universe, and we are self-aware.

>
 Self-wareness is an experience that depends on being the
 entity that experiences it, so it cannot be observed from
 the outside and therefore also not be expressed in words.
>
 If you are self-aware, you probably know that you are self-
 aware, but you cannot know for sure whether something else
 is self-aware.

 
Keep it simple.
In all the 'neurons' or nerve cells, some monitor what other cells do as system to keep life moving.
Its purpose is likely communication.
 
When a new born baby is hungry, or feels pain it will scream.
The monitor cells issue a trigger to the voice.
Almost the same as the reaction to pain reflex when you burn your finger etc.
Those monitoring calls are the 'I' as in 'I am'.
We TEACH the kinds who they are, YOU are 'Peter'
and the monitoring system then repeats ,
this 'knowledge' ever grows (memory).
IIRC it is build mostly in the frontal cortex, part of our 'world view'.
You can make it 'learn' with a few lines of code in the sunscreen example I gave.
Voice (word) recognition libraries plenty for for example Linux.
After telling it his name is 'Peter' ask it who it is.
Who are you?
I am peter .
 
Add a bit more stuff and it will fool many here :-)
 
But basically it is just a monitoring circuit for the cells.
Add a camera, object recognition..
Ask Peter 'Who am I?'
The answer will be  you name.
 
Who are you?
 I am Peter.
Peter How's you battery level?
 20% and falling.
  I need  recharge
 
beep

>
Monkies
gorrilas
chimpanzees
dogs
cats
elephants
ants
insects
birds
fishes
have absolutely no self-awareness.

That is not correct!
I watched several programs about animals and their behavior here on German TV.
There is also stuff on youtube.
No only are these animals self-ware, they are also aware about what we want, our 'desires'
There is a video on youtube about a girl hat feeds crows every day, the crows started bringing her pieces of shiny jewels
(that they likely steal elsewhere) when the crows figured she liked that, as 'reward' for the food!

There are many more cases

As to the simplicity of what the 'brain circuit' does, AI (as is sold today as the greatest thing),
has a LOT to learn as far as construct of the brain goes (how our systems mimicry it)
Today I was reading this in sciencedaily.com:
  Affordances in the brain: The human superpower AI hasn’t mastered
 Date:
  June 23, 2025
 Source:
  Universiteit van Amsterdam
 Summary:
  Scientists at the University of Amsterdam discovered that our brains automatically understand how we can move through different environments
  —whether it's swimming in a lake or walking a path—without conscious thought.
  These "action possibilities," or affordances, light up specific brain regions independently of what’s visually present.
  In contrast, AI models like ChatGPT still struggle with these intuitive judgments, missing the physical context that humans naturally grasp.
   https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2025/06/250622225921.htm


It confirms some what I wrote before.. Simplicity.

Human behavior is not so different from a simple feedback system
An anecdote:
in he sixties I got hold of an old American Scientific article about a toy car moving towards a light source..
Being active in electronics I build a small electric driven car and some photo cell to try it out.
In my room, with electric lights on, and light reflecting from the white wallpaper,
the car would drive towards the light wallpaper, get in its own shadow, then reverse, and the thing got into a loop.
It reminded me how we, humans, are 'looking for the light' and get in our own way (our concepts perhaps).
Its all so simple.
Its all too beautiful :-)
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e__TbhQGJU
Neural nets, drugs, light, religion, music, logic,
No I am not on drugs, not even alcohol, but I tried some in the seventies.
Me, a neural net.
And crows?
I still feed those.