Jan Panteltje wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
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Jan Panteltje wrote:
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anthk <anthk@openbsd.home> wrote or quoted:
On 2025-06-14, The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
Can a Machine become self-aware?
We are part of the universe, and we are self-aware.
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Self-wareness is an experience that depends on being the
entity that experiences it, so it cannot be observed from
the outside and therefore also not be expressed in words.
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If you are self-aware, you probably know that you are self-
aware, but you cannot know for sure whether something else
is self-aware.
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Keep it simple.
In all the 'neurons' or nerve cells, some monitor what other cells do as system to keep life moving.
Its purpose is likely communication.
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When a new born baby is hungry, or feels pain it will scream.
The monitor cells issue a trigger to the voice.
Almost the same as the reaction to pain reflex when you burn your finger etc.
Those monitoring calls are the 'I' as in 'I am'.
We TEACH the kinds who they are, YOU are 'Peter'
and the monitoring system then repeats ,
this 'knowledge' ever grows (memory).
IIRC it is build mostly in the frontal cortex, part of our 'world view'.
You can make it 'learn' with a few lines of code in the sunscreen example I gave.
Voice (word) recognition libraries plenty for for example Linux.
After telling it his name is 'Peter' ask it who it is.
Who are you?
I am peter .
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Add a bit more stuff and it will fool many here :-)
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But basically it is just a monitoring circuit for the cells.
Add a camera, object recognition..
Ask Peter 'Who am I?'
The answer will be you name.
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Who are you?
I am Peter.
Peter How's you battery level?
20% and falling.
I need recharge
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beep
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Monkies
gorrilas
chimpanzees
dogs
cats
elephants
ants
insects
birds
fishes
have absolutely no self-awareness.
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That is not correct!
I watched several programs about animals and their behavior here on German TV.
There is also stuff on youtube.
No only are these animals self-ware, they are also aware about what we want, our 'desires'
There is a video on youtube about a girl hat feeds crows every day, the crows started bringing her pieces of shiny jewels
(that they likely steal elsewhere) when the crows figured she liked that, as 'reward' for the food!
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Pattern Recognition is not self-awarness...
True, self aWARness is what precedent trumpy is into
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I see, JAN! You're a DemocRAT...and have trump derange syndrome (TDS)
poor thing...there is no hope for you.
I know, no,, I'm no demon_rat.
What are we? What is in our system that makes what we become? All predetermined?
Just some code:
Scientists reprogram ant behavior using brain molecules
Penn's Shelley Berger and colleagues explored the genetic basis of labor distribution in communal-dwelling species and discovered that pathways dating back hundreds of millions of years are conserved across animal kingdoms. Their findings offer fun
Date:
June 25, 2025
Source:
University of Pennsylvania
Summary:
Leafcutter ants live in highly organized colonies where every ant has a job, and now researchers can flip those jobs like a switch.
By manipulating just two neuropeptides, scientists can turn defenders into nurses or gardeners into leaf harvesters.
These same molecular signals echo in naked mole-rats, revealing a deep evolutionary link in how complex societies function, even across species.
The study also teases out a possible connection to insulin and longevity, hinting at new frontiers in understanding human behavior and lifespan.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2025/06/250625012443.htmAnyways, my thing seems to be curiosity, I have designed electronic stuff for army, navy, space, broadcasting, medical, what not.
In all cases you have to get into the stuff your design is used for, work with those people.
Always curiosity is making me want to look.
But I have done maintenance and fault finding too.
As to demon-rats, I do believe a bit more in a more structured system,
for example in the demon-rat system is like you would go to a local bar to ask how to design your next stuff...
In a demon-rat system people select their leaders by majority vote, sometimes what comes out is a senile old man, sometimes an egomaniac YouWitz genocide using Russian agent like trumpy.
History .. US debt ever growing, US just stealing Russian stuff, dollar in free fall without parachute..
Wrote some financial software too, did a financial training many years ago, tried option trading..
Have George Soros's book 'The Alchemy of Finance'
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/financial/index.htmlThere is more of course,:
https://panteltje.nl/index.html As to back to systems: China is doing quite good .
Soon they will be on Mars with good Chinese restaurants !
Long before Elan and his exploding rockets...
He has gone downhill ever since he 'democratically' had a vote if he should buy twitter,
BIG mistake.
Supporting trumpy was his next big mistake..
He had good engineers in SpaceX, but has his behavior now make them leave or adapt to his 'way'?
Or were they perhaps illegal aliens now deported?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGPGknpq3e0
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any bird brain can tell you dat...Jan!
Here a bit about the meaning of the word self-awareness:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-awareness
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WIKIPEDIA???? Anyone can edit Wikipedia! It's the confimation bias
website for scientists.
Na, I have once added some stuff there, purely technical,.
Wikipedia is one of the greatest things we have, that and google.
It's a website for frauds.
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Try editing Webster's dictionary...
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So, using your fruadalent wiki website...
a gorilla sees a red dot in the mirror, in a place
he never saw a red dot..
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thats? self-awareness????
I was referring to the 'Mirror neurons'
<quote>
Researchers are investigating which part of the brain allows people to be self-aware
and how people are biologically programmed to be self-aware.
V.S. Ramachandran speculates that mirror neurons may provide the neurological basis of human self-awareness.[4]
In an essay written for Edge.org in 2009, Ramachandran gave the following explanation:
These neurons can not only help simulate other people's behavior but can be turned 'inward'
—as it were—to create second-order representations or meta-representations of your own earlier brain processes.
This could be the neural basis of introspection, and of the reciprocity of self awareness and other awareness.
There is obviously a chicken-or-egg question here as to which evolved first, but...
The main point is that the two co-evolved, mutually enriching each other to create the mature representation of self that characterizes modern humans."[5]
<end quote>
So very simple basically.
Not hard to code at all.
AI is much of a hype sold today.
As is fusion power.
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There are many more cases
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As to the simplicity of what the 'brain circuit' does, AI (as is sold today as the greatest thing),
has a LOT to learn as far as construct of the brain goes (how our systems mimicry it)
Today I was reading this in sciencedaily.com:
Affordances in the brain: The human superpower AI hasn’t mastered
Date:
June 23, 2025
Source:
Universiteit van Amsterdam
Summary:
Scientists at the University of Amsterdam discovered that our brains automatically understand how we can move through
different environments
—whether it's swimming in a lake or walking a path—without conscious thought.
These "action possibilities," or affordances, light up specific brain regions independently of what’s visually
present.
In contrast, AI models like ChatGPT still struggle with these intuitive judgments, missing the physical context that
humans
naturally grasp.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2025/06/250622225921.htm
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It confirms some what I wrote before.. Simplicity.
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Human behavior is not so different from a simple feedback system
An anecdote:
in he sixties I got hold of an old American Scientific article about a toy car moving towards a light source..
Being active in electronics I build a small electric driven car and some photo cell to try it out.
In my room, with electric lights on, and light reflecting from the white wallpaper,
the car would drive towards the light wallpaper, get in its own shadow, then reverse, and the thing got into a loop.
It reminded me how we, humans, are 'looking for the light' and get in our own way (our concepts perhaps).
Its all so simple.
Its all too beautiful :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e__TbhQGJU
Neural nets, drugs, light, religion, music, logic,
No I am not on drugs, not even alcohol, but I tried some in the seventies.
Me, a neural net.
And crows?
I still feed those.
Just some other cells monitoring more basics ones and the memories build up in those.
Maybe you think in english ?
Birdies think in pictures and sounds, use memories too, no difference.
It is an interesting subject, how long before we have small bots that are smarter than us?
And then one big EMP kills all?
Life and life forms is an interesting subject too:
Mojave lichen defies death rays—could life thrive on distant exoplanets?
Lichen from the Mojave Desert can survive, and replicate, under levels of extreme solar radiation found on Earth-like planets
in other solar systems.
Date:
June 24, 2025
Source:
Desert Research Institute
Summary:
Lichen from the Mojave Desert has stunned scientists by surviving months of lethal UVC radiation,
suggesting life could exist on distant planets orbiting volatile stars.
The secret? A microscopic “sunscreen” layer that protects their vital cells—even though Earth’s atmosphere already
filters out such rays.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2025/06/250624224813.htm
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That which you believe is "self-awarness"...
according to Albert Einstein is simply a...optical delusion.
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In other words, 'self-awarness' is a delusion.
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A machine cannot be self-aware because humans have no self-awarness!
It's only an illusion.
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A Jan by any other name...
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is a machine
with a very
strong dellusion of
self...awareness.
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Your warm :-) is a mockery.
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I just looked
in mirror
and there is
a red dot
on my forehead...
therefore I am.
Many in India have dots on their foreheads..
What does it mean if an Indian has a dot on their forehead?
The word “bindi” comes from the Sanskrit word “bindu,”meaning “dot” or “point.”
But it's not just any dot—it holds deep significance in Indian traditions.
In many cultures, it represents spiritual awakening and is connected to the “third eye,” the center of wisdom and intuition.
Anyways I have no dot, but I hope yours helps you.
I think if I was born in these days I would like to build my own Dino.
Expect the 'build your own dino kits' on sale in Walmart any day now :-)
Build your own preCident???
My suggestion to you is: code some machine experiment.
Re: Can a Machine become self-aware?
Re: Can a Machine become self-aware?