Re: Argument with ChatGPT about that Pound-Rebka experiment was A FRAUD.

On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 0:33:25 +0000, rhertz wrote:

On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 16:28:45 +0000, ProkaryoticCaspaseHomolog wrote:

You clearly have been priming ChatGPT with misleading "facts" outside
of its range of knowledge. Chatbots generally assume good faith on the
part of their users. I know from observation that ChatGPT has only a
rather superficial knowledge of the details of Pound & Rebka. ChatGPT
assumed good faith on your part, that you would provide it with
accurate and fairly stated facts to fill in the gaps in its knowledge.
Instead, you deliberately fed it false information.

>
>
As usual, you are a know-it-all relativist, always prone to downplay or
dismiss any opinion contrary to yours.
>
Now, YOU ACCUSE ME OF CHEATING CHATGPT BY MISGUIDING THE AI ENGINE.

Absolutely true. You fed it the following nonsense, and then
questioned ChatGPT why the numbers didn't work out:
| Net shift (source at the bottom, red shifting) = (-17.6 - 2.1) x
10^-15.
| Netshift (source at the top, blue shifting) = (-15.5 + 2.1) x 10^-15.
ChatGPT assumed that your numbers were correct and bullshitted its
answer as best as it could.

I know that you are anti-ChatGPT, because it's mostly an ERUDITE IDIOT
MACHINE, which know nothing about the Pound-Rebka experiment.

Absolutely true.

What you didn't take into account, ASSHOLE, is that the PR experiment
was just an insignificant and early use of the Mossbauer effect. 64
years after that paper, the knowledge about Mossbauer effect and its
uses everywhere INCREASED 1,000,000 TIMES, with information about
Mossbauer spectroscopy being available in HUGE AMOUNTS and EVERYWHERE,
like this german document of 299 pages:
>
https://www.blogs.uni-mainz.de/fb09akguetlich/files/2017/11/Moessbauer_Lectures.pdf
>
READ IT AND LEARN, PRETENDER KNOW-IT-ALL!
>
Now, FOR YOU TO SUFFER WHILE READING, I'm transcribing a dialog with
ChatGPT, where I ONLY QUESTION and supply no data.
>
Let's see if you now can call the AI Engine A GULLIBLE MACHINE. Read and
suffer:
>
>
****************************************************************************
>
You said:
How many scintillation counters were placed below the absorber to detect
the gamma rays that passed through the absorber?
>
ChatGPT said:
In the Pound-Rebka experiment, two scintillation counters were placed
below the absorber to detect the gamma rays that passed through it.
These detectors measured the intensity of the transmitted gamma rays,
which varied depending on whether the gamma-ray frequency matched the
resonance absorption frequency of the absorber.
This setup allowed precise detection of changes in gamma-ray
transmission caused by the gravitational redshift and the induced
Doppler shift. Using two scintillation counters improved the accuracy of
the experiment by providing redundancy and helping to reduce the
influence of noise and systematic errors.
>
You said:
How the two scintillator counters were used to measure pulse counts on
each side of the absorption curve? How were the four counters tuned to
count pulses at exactly four different Doppler velocities (+/- 0.11 mm/s
and +/- 0.09 mm/s)?
ChatGPT said:
In the Pound-Rebka experiment, the scintillation counters played a
critical role in detecting gamma rays at specific Doppler velocities to
measure the gravitational redshift. Here’s how the counters and the
experimental setup were used:
________________________________________
1. Two Scintillation Counters and Pulse Counting
• The two scintillation counters below the absorber were used to measure
the number of gamma rays transmitted through the absorber. These
counters recorded pulse counts at different Doppler velocities by
monitoring the gamma rays' resonance absorption characteristics.
• To obtain data on both sides of the Mössbauer resonance curve, the
experimenters measured pulse counts as the emitter's velocity was varied
symmetrically around the expected resonance frequency. This allowed them
to quantify the shifts in gamma-ray frequency due to gravitational
redshift and Doppler effects.
________________________________________
2. Tuning the Counters for Four Doppler Velocities
The experiment required measurements at four specific Doppler
velocities: ±0.11 mm/s, and ±0.09 mm/s. These velocities were chosen to
span the resonance curve symmetrically and ensure accurate
characterization of the absorption.
How the tuning was achieved:
1. Controlled Motion of the Emitter:
o The emitter was mounted on a mechanical drive capable of moving it at
precisely controlled velocities.
o The drive system ensured that the Doppler velocities vvv could be set
to the required values ±0.11 mm/s and ±0.09 mm/s.
o At these velocities, the frequency shift Δν\ν caused by the Doppler
effect matched specific offsets from the resonance frequency.

ChatGPT really demonstrates its ignorance here. The source was mounted
on a moving coil magnetic transducer (speaker coil) providing
sinusoidal motions of ±0.1mm/s. Superimposed on the sinusoidal motions
of the transducer was the slow (typically about 0.01 mm/s) constant
motion of a slave hydraulic driven by a small diameter master cylinder
controlled by a synchronous motor.

2. Synchronization with Pulse Counting:
o Each scintillation counter was paired with a timing and pulse-counting
circuit to detect gamma rays transmitted at each of the four Doppler
velocities.
o The counters alternated between recording pulses at the positive and
negative velocities (+0.11 mm/s, −0.11 mm/s, +0.09 mm/s, −0.09 mm/s..
o This configuration provided data for both sides of the resonance
curve, enabling the experimenters to accurately determine the
gravitational redshift.

Highly inaccurate and very misleading description.

3. Calibration of the Velocity Drive:
o The velocity drive was carefully calibrated to ensure that the Doppler
velocities matched the desired values.
o A feedback system may have been used to maintain the precision of the
emitter's motion.
4. Summing and Averaging Pulse Counts:
o The pulse counts from the two counters were averaged to minimize
random errors and systematic noise.
o By recording counts at symmetric velocities around the resonance, the
experiment reduced potential biases from asymmetries in the absorption
curve or systematic detector effects.

Highly inaccurate and very misleading description.
 ________________________________________

3. Why Four Velocities?
The choice of four velocities allowed the experimenters to:
• Examine the resonance curve at multiple points, ensuring a reliable
measurement of the gravitational redshift.
• Correct for any asymmetry or noise by using symmetric Doppler
velocities (±0.11 mm/s and ±0.09 mm/s.
• Validate their results by confirming consistency between positive and
negative velocity data.

This is a bunch of ChatGPT-generated bullshit.
_______________________________________

4. Significance of the Configuration
This meticulous setup of scintillation counters and Doppler tuning
ensured the success of the Pound-Rebka experiment. The combination of
symmetry, redundancy, and precise control over the emitter’s motion
allowed the experimenters to measure the gravitational redshift with
unprecedented accuracy.
>
>
You said:
why Pound-Rebka added the pulse count at each side of the curve, and how
did they transform these values in a frequency shift?
>
ChatGPT said:
The Pound-Rebka experiment required precise measurement of the
gravitational redshift by analyzing the transmission of gamma rays at
different Doppler velocities around the resonance frequency. To ensure
accuracy, the pulse counts recorded on both sides of the Mössbauer
resonance curve were added and transformed into a frequency shift.
Here’s how and why this was done:
________________________________________
1. Adding Pulse Counts from Both Sides of the Curve
Why add pulse counts?
• Symmetry of the Mössbauer Resonance Curve: The Mössbauer resonance
absorption curve is symmetric around the resonance frequency. By
measuring pulse counts at Doppler velocities on both sides of the curve
(e.g., ±0.11 mm/s and ±0.09 mm/), the experimenters could average out
any small asymmetries or noise in the data.
• Error Reduction: Adding the counts from both sides minimized the
effects of random errors, systematic shifts, or detector biases.
• Relative Shift Detection: By summing counts from opposite sides, they
effectively measured the deviation of the gamma-ray absorption from the
expected symmetric pattern caused by gravitational redshift.
How was this done?
• At each velocity (e.g., +0.11 mm/s and −0.11 mm/s), the gamma rays
passing through the absorber were detected, and their pulse counts were
recorded.
• These counts were then added together to calculate the total
transmission on each side of the resonance.

ChatGPT is really rather clueless about the data analysis.
______________________________________

2. Transforming Pulse Counts into Frequency Shifts
Relating Doppler Velocities to Frequency Shifts
The frequency shift Δν\ν induced by the Doppler effect is given by:
Δν =  ν_0 v/c,
where:
• ν_0 is the rest frequency of the gamma rays,
• v is the Doppler velocity,
• c is the speed of light.
Using Pulse Count Ratios
• The observed pulse counts at a specific Doppler velocity indicate the
degree of resonance absorption, which depends on how closely the shifted
gamma-ray frequency matches the absorber's resonance frequency.
• By comparing pulse counts at positive and negative velocities, the
experimenters inferred how much the resonance curve was displaced due to
the gravitational redshift.
>
Steps to Determine the Frequency Shift
1. Measure Pulse Counts:
o Let N+ and N− represent the pulse counts at Doppler velocities +v and
−v, respectively.
o A higher count on one side (e.g., N+ >N−) indicates a frequency shift
toward that side due to gravitational redshift.
2. Calculate the Difference:
o The difference in counts (N+ - N_) reflects the asymmetry in
absorption caused by the frequency shift.
3. Normalize to the Resonance Curve:
o The asymmetry in pulse counts is related to the displacement of the
resonance curve, which directly corresponds to the frequency shift Δν.
4. Convert to Gravitational Redshift:
o Using the Doppler velocity calibration, the frequency shift was
expressed as: Δν/ν0 = Δv/c,, where Δv is the velocity required to
counteract the gravitational redshift.
________________________________________
3. Significance of the Method
By adding the pulse counts and comparing them symmetrically on both
sides of the resonance curve:
• The experimenters eliminated systematic errors and isolated the
gravitational redshift from other effects.
• The measured frequency shift matched the theoretical prediction of
Δν/ν = gh/c^2, providing strong confirmation of General Relativity.
This method exemplifies how the combination of precision measurements
and careful symmetry analysis can yield groundbreaking scientific
results.

More bullshit based on ChatGPT choosing probabilistically likely
combinations of words.

You said:
how many pulses were counted each second?
>
ChatGPT said:
In the Pound-Rebka experiment, the scintillation counters detected
gamma-ray pulses at a rate of approximately 20,000 counts per second
when the system was at its maximum transmission (i.e., when the
gamma-ray frequency was not strongly absorbed by the absorber).
________________________________________
Key Details about Pulse Counting:
1. Dependence on Resonance:
o When the emitted gamma rays matched the resonance frequency of the
absorber (or were Doppler-shifted into resonance), more absorption
occurred, leading to a reduction in the detected pulse count.
o Away from the resonance frequency, the pulse count was closer to the
maximum of ~20,000 per second.
2. Variations Due to Absorption:
o Near the resonance, the detected count rate decreased by a few
percent, corresponding to the level of gamma-ray absorption by the
Mössbauer absorber.
o For example, if the absorber caused 10% absorption at resonance, the
count rate might drop to around 18,000 counts per second.

More like 30%.
Note that about 80% of the emissions of their source was recoilless.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamb%E2%80%93M%C3%B6ssbauer_factor

3. Integration Time:
o To improve statistical accuracy, the pulse counts were typically
integrated over several seconds or longer. For instance, if the counters
were operated for 10 seconds, the total pulse count would be on the
order of 200,000 counts per counter, allowing for precise comparisons
between the Doppler-shifted frequencies.
________________________________________
This high count rate, combined with the precision of the Mössbauer
effect, enabled the experiment to detect the minute changes in gamma-ray
transmission caused by the gravitational redshift.
>
>
You said:
how many pulses were counted in the entire experiment?
>
>
ChatGPT said:
To estimate the total number of pulses counted during the entire
Pound-Rebka experiment, we need to consider the following factors:
1. Pulse Count Rate: Approximately 20,000 pulses per second at maximum
transmission.
2. Integration Time per Measurement: Each data point was typically
integrated over several seconds (e.g., 10 seconds or more) to improve
accuracy and reduce statistical errors.
3. Number of Data Points: Multiple measurements were taken at different
Doppler velocities (e.g., ±0.11 mm/s and ±0.09 mm/s) and at both sides
of the resonance curve.
4. Repetition of Measurements: To ensure reliability and reduce
systematic errors, the measurements were repeated many times.
________________________________________
Estimation
• If each measurement at a specific Doppler velocity lasted 10 seconds,
the pulse count for one measurement would be:
20,000 pulses/second × 10 seconds = 200,000 pulses
• Suppose 4 Doppler velocities (±0.11 mm/s and ±0.09 mm/s) were
measured, and each velocity was repeated 10 times for reliability. The
total integration time would be:
4 velocities × 10 repetitions ×10 seconds/measurement= 400seconds.
• Total pulse count for these measurements:
20,000 pulses/second × 400 seconds = 8,000,000 pulses
________________________________________
Final Estimate
Considering additional repetitions, calibration, and other systematic
checks, the total number of pulses counted over the course of the
experiment likely exceeded 10 million pulses. This large number ensured
a high level of statistical confidence in the results, minimizing random
errors and allowing for precise determination of the gravitational
redshift.

AI Chatbots are, in general, very poor in math. This is a gross
underestimate. At 20,000 counts per second, 10,000,000 pulses would
represent only 500 seconds of data collection. which would be totally
insufficient to provide any degree of statistical confidence in their
result.

**********************************************************
>
HAPPY NOW?

No.
Please read
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound%E2%80%93Rebka_experiment
I am currently 86% author of this article.