Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller

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Sujet : Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller
De : richard (at) *nospam* damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Groupes : comp.theory sci.logic
Date : 07. Jul 2025, 03:09:43
Autres entêtes
Organisation : i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID : <1ca786773f9ff02718c66e082bbc4182b36732ab@i2pn2.org>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 7/6/25 4:06 PM, olcott wrote:
On 7/6/2025 12:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 7/6/25 11:19 AM, olcott wrote:
On 7/6/2025 6:50 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 7/6/25 12:34 AM, olcott wrote:
On 7/5/2025 10:02 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 7/5/25 10:43 PM, olcott wrote:
On 7/5/2025 7:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 7/5/25 12:26 PM, olcott wrote:
On 7/5/2025 8:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 7/4/25 6:11 PM, olcott wrote:
On 7/4/2025 3:53 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 7/4/25 4:43 PM, olcott wrote:
On 6/3/2025 10:02 PM, dbush wrote:
On 6/3/2025 10:58 PM, olcott wrote:
On 6/3/2025 9:46 PM, dbush wrote:
On 6/3/2025 10:34 PM, olcott wrote:
On 6/3/2025 9:12 PM, dbush wrote:
>
Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of instructions) X described as <X> with input Y:
>
A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that computes the following mapping:
>
(<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
(<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed directly
>
>
Yes there is no algorithm that does that
>
Excellent!
>
Let The Record Show
>
That Peter Olcott
>
Has *EXPLICITLY* admitted
>
That no algorithm H exists that meets the above requirements, which is precisely the theorem that the halting problem proofs prove.
>
In the exact same way that there is no set of all set
that contain themselves. ZFC did not solve Russell's
Paradox as much as it showed that Russell's Paradox
was anchored in an incoherent foundation, now called
naive set theory.
>
Which arose because the axioms of naive set theory created a contradiction.
>
>
Likewise with halt deciders that are required to report
on the behavior of directly executed Turing machines.
>
And what is the CONTRADICTION?
>
The result is just some things are not computable.
>
>
The result is that there cannot possibly be
an *ACTUAL INPUT* that does the opposite of
whatever its partial halt decider decides
thus the HP proof fails before it begins.
>
>
Sure there is.
>
>
In order to have an honest dialogue you must pay
100% complete attention to every single word.
>
You can't just erase one of the words that I said
and then form a rebuttal on that basis.
>
Directly executed Turing machines have always been
outside of the domain of every Turing machine based
decider.
>
>
>
Nope.
>
Your refusal to providee a source is your admission that you are just a liar.
>
Remember, The DEFINITION of a Halt Deicder is that it is to be a decider that decides if the program represented by its input will halt when run.
>
>
It has never been the program represented by its input
it has always been the behavior specified by its input.
This is the key mistake that no one noticed in 90 years.
>
Really?
>
In computability theory, the halting problem is the problem of determining, from a description of an arbitrary computer program and an input, whether the program will finish running, or continue to run forever.
>
Sounds like the program and its representation.
>
>
With pathological self-reference the directly
executed machine will not have the same
behavior as the correctly simulated machine
specification.
>
Sure it does.
>
>
void DDD()
{
   HHH(DDD);
   return;
}
>
*EVERY BOT FIGURES THIS OUT ON ITS OWN*
>
No, it just isn't smart enough to detect that you lied in your premise.
>
There is no way that DDD simulated by HHH (according
to the semantics of the C programming language)
can possibly reach its own "return" statement final
halt state.
>
And there is no way for HHH to correctly simulate its input and return an answer
>
 You insistence that a non-terminating input be simulated
until non-existent completion is especially nuts because
you have been told about this dozens of times.
 What the F is wrong with you?
 
It seems you don't understand those words.
I don't say that the decider needs to simulate the input to completion, but that it needs to be able to actually PROVE that if this exact input WAS given to a correct simultor (which won't be itself, since it isn't doing the complete simulation) will run for an unbounded number of steps.
The "behavior" of the input isn't a subjective property, that is dependent on something about the decider, but is an objective property that is only a function of the input (which includes what HHH that given DDD was paired with).
Your confusion with the TRUTH of what that (perhaps just hypothetical) correct simulation does, with the KNOWLEDGE that the decider got by its (partial) simulation just shows you stupidity.
The fact that you keep on working with self-contradictory equivocations on what "the input" means just shows the level of your deceit (or stupidity).
If "the input" that represents DDD doesn't include the code for HHH, then it is just impossible to simulate it past the call instruction.
If "the input" that represents DDD does include the code for HHH, then that input defines the only HHH that exists with this DDD, and thus when you talk about different HHHs looking at "the input" you are lying, as they are each looking at DIFFERENT inputs.
Thus, your whole argument is just based on LYING because you just don't understand (and actively refuse to understand) the meaning of basics like what a program is, what halting is, what a "correct simulation" is, or even what "the input" means.
Sorru, you are just proving how ignorant you are.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
3 Jun 25 * My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller211olcott
4 Jun 25 +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller148dbush
4 Jun 25 i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller147olcott
4 Jun 25 i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller145dbush
4 Jun 25 i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller144olcott
4 Jun 25 i i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller143dbush
4 Jun 25 i i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller142olcott
4 Jun 25 i i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller141dbush
4 Jul 25 i i    `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller140olcott
4 Jul 25 i i     `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller139Richard Damon
4 Jul 25 i i      +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller128olcott
5 Jul14:14 i i      i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller127Richard Damon
5 Jul17:26 i i      i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller126olcott
6 Jul01:44 i i      i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller125Richard Damon
6 Jul04:02 i i      i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller124Richard Damon
6 Jul05:34 i i      i    `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller123olcott
6 Jul10:32 i i      i     +- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Fred. Zwarts
6 Jul12:50 i i      i     `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller121Richard Damon
6 Jul16:19 i i      i      `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller120olcott
6 Jul18:00 i i      i       `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller119Richard Damon
6 Jul21:06 i i      i        `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller118olcott
7 Jul03:09 i i      i         +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller116Richard Damon
7 Jul04:12 i i      i         i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller115olcott
7 Jul08:36 i i      i         i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller69Fred. Zwarts
7 Jul14:23 i i      i         i i+* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller11olcott
8 Jul09:10 i i      i         i ii`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller10Fred. Zwarts
8 Jul15:59 i i      i         i ii `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller9olcott
9 Jul10:58 i i      i         i ii  +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller7Fred. Zwarts
9 Jul14:46 i i      i         i ii  i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller6olcott
10 Jul12:17 i i      i         i ii  i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller4Fred. Zwarts
10 Jul15:46 i i      i         i ii  i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3olcott
11 Jul10:02 i i      i         i ii  i i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2Fred. Zwarts
11 Jul22:17 i i      i         i ii  i i  `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1olcott
10 Jul12:41 i i      i         i ii  i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
9 Jul12:32 i i      i         i ii  `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
7 Jul19:38 i i      i         i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller57olcott
7 Jul23:41 i i      i         i i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller55Richard Damon
8 Jul00:52 i i      i         i i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller54olcott
8 Jul03:18 i i      i         i i i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller53Richard Damon
8 Jul03:38 i i      i         i i i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller52olcott
8 Jul08:15 i i      i         i i i   +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller9joes
8 Jul15:14 i i      i         i i i   i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller8olcott
8 Jul17:10 i i      i         i i i   i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller6joes
8 Jul17:22 i i      i         i i i   i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller5olcott
8 Jul18:44 i i      i         i i i   i i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3joes
8 Jul19:21 i i      i         i i i   i i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
9 Jul12:38 i i      i         i i i   i i i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
9 Jul12:36 i i      i         i i i   i i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
9 Jul12:34 i i      i         i i i   i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
8 Jul12:13 i i      i         i i i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller42Richard Damon
8 Jul16:08 i i      i         i i i    `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller41olcott
8 Jul17:07 i i      i         i i i     +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller37joes
8 Jul17:19 i i      i         i i i     i+* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
8 Jul23:33 i i      i         i i i     ii`- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
8 Jul20:01 i i      i         i i i     i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller34Mike Terry
8 Jul20:49 i i      i         i i i     i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller33olcott
9 Jul02:30 i i      i         i i i     i  +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
9 Jul12:48 i i      i         i i i     i  i`- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
9 Jul10:09 i i      i         i i i     i  +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller8Fred. Zwarts
9 Jul14:35 i i      i         i i i     i  i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller7olcott
10 Jul02:39 i i      i         i i i     i  i +- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
10 Jul12:08 i i      i         i i i     i  i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller5Fred. Zwarts
10 Jul15:43 i i      i         i i i     i  i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller4olcott
11 Jul09:59 i i      i         i i i     i  i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3Fred. Zwarts
11 Jul22:13 i i      i         i i i     i  i    `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
12 Jul11:52 i i      i         i i i     i  i     `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1joes
9 Jul12:44 i i      i         i i i     i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller22Richard Damon
9 Jul14:55 i i      i         i i i     i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike21olcott
10 Jul02:49 i i      i         i i i     i    `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike20Richard Damon
10 Jul03:50 i i      i         i i i     i     `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike19olcott
10 Jul12:35 i i      i         i i i     i      `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike18Richard Damon
10 Jul14:24 i i      i         i i i     i       `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike17olcott
11 Jul01:04 i i      i         i i i     i        `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike16Richard Damon
11 Jul01:27 i i      i         i i i     i         `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike15olcott
11 Jul03:10 i i      i         i i i     i          `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike14Richard Damon
11 Jul03:33 i i      i         i i i     i           `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike13olcott
11 Jul09:55 i i      i         i i i     i            +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike9Fred. Zwarts
11 Jul15:27 i i      i         i i i     i            i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike8olcott
11 Jul15:31 i i      i         i i i     i            i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike6Fred. Zwarts
11 Jul18:50 i i      i         i i i     i            i i+* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike3olcott
12 Jul00:46 i i      i         i i i     i            i ii+- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike1Richard Damon
12 Jul09:22 i i      i         i i i     i            i ii`- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike1Fred. Zwarts
11 Jul22:27 i i      i         i i i     i            i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike2olcott
12 Jul00:53 i i      i         i i i     i            i i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike1Richard Damon
12 Jul00:41 i i      i         i i i     i            i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike1Richard Damon
11 Jul14:42 i i      i         i i i     i            `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike3Richard Damon
11 Jul15:30 i i      i         i i i     i             `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike2olcott
12 Jul00:55 i i      i         i i i     i              `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike1Richard Damon
8 Jul23:31 i i      i         i i i     `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3Richard Damon
8 Jul23:51 i i      i         i i i      `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
9 Jul12:51 i i      i         i i i       `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
8 Jul09:17 i i      i         i i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Fred. Zwarts
7 Jul09:37 i i      i         i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller13Mikko
7 Jul15:15 i i      i         i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller12olcott
7 Jul23:45 i i      i         i i +- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
8 Jul08:44 i i      i         i i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller10Mikko
8 Jul15:21 i i      i         i i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller9olcott
9 Jul09:22 i i      i         i i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller8Mikko
9 Jul13:25 i i      i         i i    `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller7olcott
10 Jul03:00 i i      i         i i     +- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
10 Jul10:30 i i      i         i i     `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller5Mikko
7 Jul12:19 i i      i         i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller32Richard Damon
7 Jul09:34 i i      i         `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Mikko
4 Jul 25 i i      +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller9olcott
5 Jul16:11 i i      `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1olcott
4 Jun 25 i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
4 Jun 25 +- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
4 Jun 25 `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller61Mikko

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