Sujet : Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3
De : richard (at) *nospam* damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Groupes : comp.theory sci.logicDate : 28. Apr 2024, 00:45:35
Autres entêtes
Organisation : i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID : <v0jv6f$2djof$4@i2pn2.org>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 4/27/24 6:29 PM, olcott wrote:
On 4/27/2024 5:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 4/27/24 6:02 PM, olcott wrote:
On 4/27/2024 4:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 4/27/24 5:36 PM, olcott wrote:
On 4/27/2024 4:24 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 4/27/24 3:48 PM, olcott wrote:
Simulating termination analyzer H determines whether or not
D(D) simulated by H can possibly reach its final state at its
own line 06 and halt whether or not H aborts its simulation.
>
We can resolve exactly what I mean by this as an aspect of
staying on this one point. We cannot move on to the slightest
trace of any nuance of any other point until AFTER we have
100% complete mutual agreement on this point.
>
(a) It is a verified fact that D(D) simulated by H cannot
possibly reach past line 03 of D(D) simulated by H whether H
aborts its simulation or not.
>
When we have 100% perfect mutual agreement on that point
then we can move on to the next aspect of the point of the
paragraph.
>
>
The problem is you don't seem to have a proper definition for a "program", as the input seems to change behavior as you analyize different options for what "different" H's might do.
>
It seems that neither your D or your H actual meet the normal definition of what a "Program" is.
>
>
I never even use the word "program"
*H and D are 100% completely specified right here*
https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c
>
>
>
So, what is the defined "class" of the input to a Termination Analyzer.
>
>
I am only talking about H and D. You always "read things in"
to what I say that I never said.
>
So, what are "H" and "D", are they "Programs" per the standard definitions, or something else that you are stipulating?
>
They are 100% completely defined in the complete source-code
that I just linked above.
So, if H is "defined" by its source code, then it can only do one thing, and thus your criteria of talking about "whether it aborts its simulation or not" is a MEANINGLESS Statement.
And, if it can only have ONE input, it isn't really a "Decider".
You don't seem to understand the problems with how you are treating them, because you just fail to understand the meaning of the words.
>
No words to it 100% complete source code.
In other words, you are just admitting that your system is a TOY and isn't actually solving a "Problem", at the "Problem statement" is asking about trying to write a program H that has been specified to answer about a specific input that is specified, based on a criteria that talks about some other Hs that can't actually exist.
You REALLY don't understand what you are doing, do you.
>
The input to a Halt Decider is (in the specific case, where the decider is itself a Turing Machine) a description of a Turing Machine and its input tape, or in the more general case, the description of a Program and its input.
>
If your "Replacement" for a Halt Decider (your Termination Analyzer) doesn't take the same class of thing as an input, then it isn't much of a replacement, and your whole scheme falls apart.
>
>
Date | Sujet | # | | Auteur |
18 Apr 24 | Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 | 277 | | olcott |
18 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 | 220 | | Richard Damon |
18 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 | 219 | | olcott |
19 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 | 218 | | Richard Damon |
19 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 | 217 | | olcott |
19 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 | 216 | | Richard Damon |
19 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 | 27 | | olcott |
19 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 | 5 | | Richard Damon |
19 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 | 4 | | olcott |
19 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 | 3 | | Richard Damon |
19 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 | 2 | | olcott |
20 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 | 1 | | Richard Damon |
20 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- | 21 | | olcott |
20 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- | 1 | | Richard Damon |
21 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- | 19 | | olcott |
21 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- | 1 | | Richard Damon |
21 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- | 1 | | Richard Damon |
22 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- | 16 | | Mikko |
22 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- | 4 | | olcott |
23 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- | 3 | | Richard Damon |
23 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- | 2 | | olcott |
24 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- | 1 | | Richard Damon |
23 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- | 11 | | olcott |
26 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- | 10 | | olcott |
26 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- | 1 | | Richard Damon |
26 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- | 7 | | Ross Finlayson |
26 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- | 6 | | olcott |
26 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- | 5 | | Richard Damon |
26 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- | 4 | | Ross Finlayson |
26 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- | 3 | | olcott |
26 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- | 2 | | Richard Damon |
26 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- | 1 | | Ross Finlayson |
27 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Mendelson-- | 1 | | olcott |
19 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 | 2 | | olcott |
20 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 | 1 | | Richard Damon |
19 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Tarski Proof-- | 186 | | olcott |
20 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Tarski Proof-- | 3 | | Richard Damon |
20 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Tarski Proof-- | 2 | | olcott |
20 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Tarski Proof-- | 1 | | Richard Damon |
20 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Tarski Proof-- | 182 | | olcott |
20 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Tarski Proof-- | 3 | | Richard Damon |
21 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Tarski Proof-- | 2 | | olcott |
21 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Tarski Proof-- | 1 | | Richard Damon |
21 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Tarski Proof-- | 178 | | olcott |
22 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --Tarski Proof-- | 177 | | olcott |
24 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- | 176 | | olcott |
25 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- | 171 | | Richard Damon |
25 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- | 170 | | olcott |
25 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- | 10 | | Richard Damon |
25 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- | 9 | | olcott |
25 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- | 8 | | Richard Damon |
25 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- | 7 | | olcott |
25 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- | 6 | | Richard Damon |
25 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- | 2 | | olcott |
25 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- | 1 | | Richard Damon |
25 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- | 2 | | olcott |
25 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- | 1 | | Richard Damon |
25 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- | 1 | | Ross Finlayson |
25 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- | 159 | | olcott |
26 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- | 1 | | Richard Damon |
26 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- | 139 | | olcott |
26 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- | 138 | | Richard Damon |
26 Apr 24 | D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does | 137 | | olcott |
26 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does | 1 | | Richard Damon |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does | 135 | | olcott |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does | 134 | | Richard Damon |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does | 133 | | olcott |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does | 132 | | Richard Damon |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does | 131 | | olcott |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does | 130 | | Richard Damon |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does | 1 | | olcott |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does | 1 | | olcott |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 127 | | olcott |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 126 | | Richard Damon |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 125 | | olcott |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 124 | | Richard Damon |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 123 | | olcott |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 19 | | Richard Damon |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 18 | | olcott |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 17 | | Richard Damon |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 16 | | olcott |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 15 | | Richard Damon |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 14 | | olcott |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 13 | | Richard Damon |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 12 | | olcott |
27 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 11 | | Richard Damon |
28 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 10 | | olcott |
28 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 9 | | Richard Damon |
28 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 8 | | olcott |
28 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 7 | | Richard Damon |
28 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 6 | | olcott |
28 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 5 | | Richard Damon |
28 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 4 | | olcott |
28 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 3 | | Richard Damon |
28 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 2 | | olcott |
28 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 1 | | Richard Damon |
28 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 103 | | olcott |
28 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 1 | | Richard Damon |
29 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 101 | | olcott |
29 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 99 | | Mikko |
29 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 98 | | olcott |
30 Apr 24 | Re: D simulated by H never halts no matter what H does V3 | 1 | | Richard Damon |
28 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- | 18 | | olcott |
25 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --H(D,D)-- | 4 | | olcott |
18 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 | 54 | | olcott |
18 Apr 24 | Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 | 2 | | olcott |