Re: Olcott is a patholgociat liar!

Liste des GroupesRevenir à theory 
Sujet : Re: Olcott is a patholgociat liar!
De : richard (at) *nospam* damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Groupes : comp.theory sci.logic
Date : 17. May 2024, 04:29:30
Autres entêtes
Organisation : i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID : <v26fea$18ad7$5@i2pn2.org>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 5/16/24 10:37 AM, olcott wrote:
On 5/16/2024 5:15 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-05-15 15:03:20 +0000, olcott said:
>
On 5/15/2024 3:04 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-05-14 14:21:10 +0000, olcott said:
>
On 5/14/2024 4:44 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-05-12 15:58:02 +0000, olcott said:
>
On 5/12/2024 10:21 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-05-12 11:34:17 +0000, Richard Damon said:
>
On 5/12/24 5:19 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 2024-05-11 16:26:30 +0000, olcott said:
>
I am working on providing an academic quality definition of this
term.
>
The definition in Wikipedia is good enough.
>
>
I think he means, he is working on a definition that redefines the field to allow him to claim what he wants.
>
Here one can claim whatever one wants anysay.
In if one wants to present ones claims on some significant forum then
it is better to stick to usual definitions as much as possible.
>
Sort of like his new definition of H as an "unconventional" machine that some how both returns an answer but also keeps on running.
>
There are systems where that is possible but unsolvable problems are
unsolvable even in those systems.
>
>
When Ĥ is applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩
Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qy ∞
Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn
>
This notation does not work with machines that can, or have parts
that can, return a value without (or before) termination.
>
>
⊢* specifies a wildcard set of state transitions that could
include a transition to a non-final state embedded_H.qn.
>
The term "wildcard" is usually not used in this context. And the word
"set" is not sufficiently specific, so "sequence" should be used instead.
>
>
Yes that is better.
⊢* specifies a wildcard sequence of state transitions
>
That still has the problem that "wildcard" has no well known meaning
that could be applicable in that context.
>
*Here is how Linz says it*
The Linz term “move” means a state transition and its corresponding
tape head action {move_left, move_right, read, write}.
⊢* indicates an arbitrary number of moves.
>
I.e., a sequence of moves.
>
 Not as easy for software engineers.
Wildcard as * was one of the first things that I learned.
It is well known in the field of regular expressions.
 
Anyway, the language cannot handle a situation where one part of a
machine gives its result to another parts and then both continue their
execution.
>
The language of Turing machine descriptions certainly can handle
TM's that do not halt. It can also handle transitioning through
a specific state to another state.
>
Yes, but a machine were one part of a machine gives its result to
aonter part and then both continue their exection is not a Truing
machine.
 Sure it is. A Turing machine that transitions through a specific state
and never stops running IS A TURING MACHINE. The prior state-of-the-art
is that both YES and NO are the wrong answer from TM H regarding the
behavior of input D. I provide a counter-example that PROVES that YES
is the correct answer.
 
Consequently, when you introduced that possibility were
not discussing Turing machines. A language decined for Turing
mahihes is not sufficient for non-Turing machines.
>
 *A Turing machine that transitions through a specific*
*state and never stops running IS A TURING MACHINE*
*Every specific type of Turing Machine <is> a Turing Machine*
Yes, but it didn't ANSWER by going through that state.
So, all you are admitting is your H doesn't actually answer the question.

 
This specific state can encode a halt status value. New ideas are
hard because there is no standard boiler-plate that can be applied
to them.
>
The specification of the halt decider requires that the halt status
value is indicated by the final state.
>
 Going from both YES and NO are the wrong answer from H about D
to YES is the correct answer about D is an incremental improvement.
But it isn't answering.

 The least that we can say about this is that H KNOWS the correct
answer yet cannot SAY the correct answer in the conventional way.
 
It may "know" it, but it can't TELL it, so it doesn't provide the required KNOWLEDGE.
And thus is WORTHLESS. as most of your work.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
14 May 24 * Re: Is Richard a Liar?175Mikko
14 May 24 +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?18olcott
15 May 24 i+- Re: Olcott is a Liar!1Richard Damon
15 May 24 i`* Re: Is Richard a Liar?16Mikko
15 May 24 i `* Re: Is Richard a Liar?15olcott
16 May 24 i  +- Re: Olcott is a Liar!1Richard Damon
16 May 24 i  `* Re: Is Richard a Liar?13Mikko
16 May 24 i   `* Re: Is Richard a Liar?12olcott
17 May 24 i    +- Re: Olcott is a patholgociat liar!1Richard Damon
17 May 24 i    `* Re: Is Richard a Liar?10Mikko
17 May 24 i     `* Re: Is Richard a Liar?9olcott
18 May 24 i      +* Re: Olcott is a Liar!5Richard Damon
18 May 24 i      i`* Re: Olcott is a Liar!4Mikko
18 May 24 i      i +- Re: Olcott is a Liar!1Richard Damon
18 May 24 i      i `* Richard is proven to be incorrect on a key point2olcott
18 May 24 i      i  `- Re: Richard is proven to be incorrect on a key point1Richard Damon
18 May 24 i      `* Re: Is Richard a Liar?3Mikko
18 May 24 i       `* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ where embedded_H is based on a UTM2olcott
18 May 24 i        `- Re: embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ where embedded_H is based on a UTM1Richard Damon
14 May 24 `* Re: Is Richard a Liar?156olcott
14 May 24  +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?132Alan Mackenzie
14 May 24  i+* Re: Is Richard a Liar?130olcott
14 May 24  ii+* Re: Is Richard a Liar?128Fred. Zwarts
14 May 24  iii`* Re: Is Richard a Liar?127olcott
14 May 24  iii `* Re: Is Richard a Liar?126Fred. Zwarts
14 May 24  iii  `* Re: Is Richard a Liar?125olcott
14 May 24  iii   +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?123Fred. Zwarts
14 May 24  iii   i`* Re: Is Richard a Liar?122olcott
14 May 24  iii   i +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?120Fred. Zwarts
14 May 24  iii   i i`* Re: Is Richard a Liar?119olcott
14 May 24  iii   i i +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?17joes
14 May 24  iii   i i i`* Re: Is Richard a Liar?16olcott
15 May 24  iii   i i i +- Re: Olcott is a Liar!1Richard Damon
15 May 24  iii   i i i `* Re: Is Richard a Liar?14Mikko
15 May 24  iii   i i i  `* Re: Is Richard a Liar?13olcott
15 May 24  iii   i i i   +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?3joes
15 May 24  iii   i i i   i`* Re: Is Richard a Liar?2olcott
16 May 24  iii   i i i   i `- Re: Olcott is a Liar!1Richard Damon
16 May 24  iii   i i i   +- Re: Olcott is a Liar!1Richard Damon
16 May 24  iii   i i i   `* Re: Is Richard a Liar?8olcott
16 May 24  iii   i i i    +- Re: Is Richard a Liar?1Fred. Zwarts
17 May 24  iii   i i i    +- Re: Olcott is a patholgociat liar!1Richard Damon
17 May 24  iii   i i i    +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?3Mikko
17 May 24  iii   i i i    i`* Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts V22olcott
18 May 24  iii   i i i    i `- Re: Every D correctly simulated by H never reaches its final state and halts V21Richard Damon
17 May 24  iii   i i i    `* Re: Is Richard a Liar?2olcott
18 May 24  iii   i i i     `- Re: Olcott is a Liar!1Richard Damon
14 May 24  iii   i i +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?80Fred. Zwarts
14 May 24  iii   i i i`* Re: Is Richard a Liar?79olcott
14 May 24  iii   i i i +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?69Fred. Zwarts
14 May 24  iii   i i i i`* Re: Is Richard a Liar?68olcott
15 May 24  iii   i i i i +- Re: Olcott is a Liar!1Richard Damon
15 May 24  iii   i i i i +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?60Fred. Zwarts
15 May 24  iii   i i i i i`* Re: Is Richard a Liar?59olcott
15 May 24  iii   i i i i i +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?57Fred. Zwarts
15 May 24  iii   i i i i i i+* Re: Is Richard a Liar?53olcott
15 May 24  iii   i i i i i ii+* Re: Is Richard a Liar?51Fred. Zwarts
15 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii`* Re: Is Richard a Liar?50olcott
15 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?48Fred. Zwarts
15 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i`* Re: Is Richard a Liar?47olcott
16 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i +- Re: Olcott is a Liar!1Richard Damon
16 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i +- Re: Is Richard a Liar?1Fred. Zwarts
16 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?36Fred. Zwarts
16 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i`* Re: Is Richard a Liar?35olcott
16 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?33Fred. Zwarts
16 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i`* Re: Is Richard a Liar?32olcott
16 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?28Fred. Zwarts
16 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i`* Re: Is Richard a Liar?27olcott
17 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i +- Re: Olcott is a patholgociat liar!1Richard Damon
17 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?18Fred. Zwarts
17 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i i`* Re: Is Richard a Liar?17olcott
17 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i i +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?11Fred. Zwarts
17 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i i i`* Re: Is Richard a Liar?10olcott
17 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i i i +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?8Fred. Zwarts
17 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i i i i`* Re: Is Richard a Liar?7olcott
18 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i i i i +- Re: Olcott is a Liar!1Richard Damon
18 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i i i i +- Re: Is Richard a Liar?1Fred. Zwarts
18 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i i i i +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?3joes
18 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i i i i i`* Re: Is Richard a Liar?2olcott
18 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i i i i i `- Re: Is Richard a Liar?1Richard Damon
18 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i i i i `- Re: Is Richard a Liar?1Fred. Zwarts
18 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i i i `- Re: Olcott is a Liar!1Richard Damon
18 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i i `* Re: Olcott is a Liar?5Richard Damon
18 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i i  `* No Message-ID therefore construed as Liar4olcott
18 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i i   `* Re: No Message-ID therefore construed as Liar3Richard Damon
18 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i i    `* Re: No Message-ID therefore construed as Liar2olcott
18 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i i     `- Re: No Message-ID therefore construed as Liar. Message ID Provided, so OLCOTT is the LIAR.1Richard Damon
17 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?3Fred. Zwarts
17 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i i`* Re: Is Richard a Liar?2olcott
18 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i i `- Re: Olcott is a Liar!1Richard Damon
17 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i `* Re: Is Richard a Liar?4Mikko
17 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i  `* Re: Is Richard a Liar?3olcott
18 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i   `* Re: Olcott is a Liar!2Richard Damon
18 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i i    `- Re: Olcott is a Liar!1Mikko
17 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i +- Re: Olcott is a patholgociat liar!1Richard Damon
17 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i `* Re: Is Richard a Liar?2Mikko
17 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i i  `- Re: Is Richard a Liar?1olcott
17 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i i `- Re: Olcott is a patholgociat liar!1Richard Damon
16 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i `* Re: Is Richard a Liar?8olcott
17 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i  +- Re: Olcott is a patholgociat liar!1Richard Damon
17 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i  +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?3olcott
18 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii i  `* Re: Is Richard a Liar?3immibis
16 May 24  iii   i i i i i iii `- Re: Olcott is a Liar!1Richard Damon
16 May 24  iii   i i i i i ii`- Re: Olcott is a Liar!1Richard Damon
15 May 24  iii   i i i i i i`* Re: Is Richard a Liar?3olcott
16 May 24  iii   i i i i i `- Re: Olcott is a Liar!1Richard Damon
15 May 24  iii   i i i i +* Re: Is Richard a Liar?3joes
15 May 24  iii   i i i i `* Re: Is Richard a Liar?3Mikko
15 May 24  iii   i i i +- Re: Olcott is a Liar!1Richard Damon
15 May 24  iii   i i i `* Re: Is Richard a Liar?8Mikko
15 May 24  iii   i i +- Re: Olcott is a Liar!1Richard Damon
15 May 24  iii   i i `* Re: Is Richard a Liar? No!20Alan Mackenzie
15 May 24  iii   i `- Re: Olcott is a Pathological Liar!1Richard Damon
15 May 24  iii   `- Re: Olcott is a Liar!1Richard Damon
15 May 24  ii`- Re: Olcott is a Liar!1Richard Damon
15 May 24  i`- Re: Is Richard a Liar?1immibis
15 May 24  +- Re: Olcott is a Liar!1Richard Damon
15 May 24  `* Re: Is Richard a Liar?22Mikko

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