Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method

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Sujet : Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method
De : polcott333 (at) *nospam* gmail.com (olcott)
Groupes : sci.logic comp.theory
Date : 17. May 2024, 03:38:18
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <v26fuq$1vvq8$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 5/16/2024 9:29 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 5/16/24 9:37 AM, olcott wrote:
On 5/16/2024 6:29 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 5/15/24 11:33 PM, olcott wrote:
On 5/15/2024 9:33 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 5/15/24 10:17 PM, olcott wrote:
On 5/15/2024 9:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 5/15/24 9:57 PM, olcott wrote:
On 5/13/2024 9:31 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 5/13/24 10:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>
Remember, p defined as ~True(L, p) is BY DEFINITION a truth bearer, as True must return a Truth Value for all inputs, and ~ a truth valus is always the other truth value.
>
>
Can a sequence of true preserving operations applied to expressions
that are stipulated to be true derive p?
>
On 5/15/2024 8:39 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
 > Which has NOTHING to do with the problem with True(L, p)
 > being true when p is defined in L as ~True(L, p)
>
*YOU ALREADY AGREED THAT True(L, p) IS FALSE*
>
No, I said that because there is not path to p, it would need to be false, but that was based on the assumption that it could exist.
>
>
No, so True(L, p) is false
and thus ~True(L, p) is true.
>
>
Can a sequence of true preserving operations applied to expressions
that are stipulated to be true derive ~p?
>
>
On 5/15/2024 7:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
 > Which has NOTHING to do with the above,
 > as we never refered to False(L,p).
>
*YOU ALREADY AGREED THAT false(L, p) IS FALSE*
>
Right, but that has nothing to do with the problem with True(L, p) being false, because, since p in L is ~True(L, p) so that make True(L, ~false) which is True(L, true) false, which is incorrrect.
>
>
No, so False(L, p) is false,
>
>
Please try and keep these two thoughts together at the same time
*I need to make another point that depends on both of them*
>
*YOU ALREADY AGREED THAT True(L, p) IS FALSE*
*YOU ALREADY AGREED THAT false(L, p) IS FALSE*
>
>
>
right, by your definitions, True(L, p) is False, but that means that True(L, true) is false, so your system is broken.
>
>
You understand that True(English, "a fish") is false
and you understand that False(English, "a fish") is false
and you understand this means that "a fish" is neither True
nor false in English.
>
You understand that the actual Liar Paradox is neither true
nor false *THIS IS MUCH MUCH BETTER THAN MOST PEOPLE: Good Job*
>
  True(English, "This sentence is not true") is false
False(English, "This sentence is not true") is false
Is saying the same thing that you already know.
>
You get stuck when we formalize: "This sentence is not true"
as "p defined as ~True(L, p)", yet the formalized sentence has
the exact same semantics as the English one.
>
>
No, YOU get stuck when you can't figure out how to make True(L, p) with p defined in L as ~True(L, p) work.
>
*You got overwhelmed with that so we have to break it down to*
*smaller steps to see exactly where our mutual agreement diverged*
>
No,
>
>
Do you understand and agree with this?
    True(English, "This sentence is not true") is false
    False(English, "This sentence is not true") is false
    *Is saying the same thing that you already agreed to*
>
>
Just more of your off topic red herring.
>
You don't need to repeat what has been agreed to, that is just a delaying tactic because you are stumped.
>
The Socratic method begins with mutual agreement and then makes
incremental steps that maintain this mutual agreement. I am taking
what you said is that you do agree with the above.
 And I have answered that question and gave you back one that you faild to answer, so you have failed the test of the Socratic method.
 
>
The English Liar Paradox that you agree with it isomorphic to the
formalized Liar Paradox: "p defined as ~True(L, p)"
 No, there is an essential difference that you just don't understand, the True predicate MUST be a Truth Bearer, BY DEFINITIOIN, while "just a statement" has the option to be a non-truth-bearer.
 
>
*You agreed that it is neither True nor False too*
 I agreed the Liar is neither True nor False,
You said that this---> p defined as ~True(L, p) ...
is neither true or false as quoted below:
On 5/13/2024 9:31 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
 > On 5/13/24 10:03 PM, olcott wrote:
 >> On 5/13/2024 7:29 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
 >>>
 >>> Remember, p defined as ~True(L, p) ...
 >>
 >> Can a sequence of true preserving operations applied
 >> to expressions that are stipulated to be true derive p?
 >
 > No, so True(L, p) is false
 >>
 >> Can a sequence of true preserving operations applied
 >> to expressions that are stipulated to be true derive ~p?
 >
 > No, so False(L, p) is false,
 >
*I can keep quoting you on this 10,000 times if needed*
*I can keep quoting you on this 10,000 times if needed*
*I can keep quoting you on this 10,000 times if needed*
--
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

Date Sujet#  Auteur
14 May 24 * Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard !113Richard Damon
14 May 24 +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard !2olcott
14 May 24 i`- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard !1Richard Damon
14 May 24 `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method110olcott
14 May 24  `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method109Richard Damon
14 May 24   +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method2olcott
14 May 24   i`- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1Richard Damon
14 May 24   +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method5olcott
14 May 24   i`* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method4Richard Damon
14 May 24   i +- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1wij
14 May 24   i `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method2olcott
15 May 24   i  `- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1Richard Damon
15 May 24   +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method2olcott
15 May 24   i`- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1Richard Damon
15 May 24   +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method4olcott
15 May 24   i`* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method3Richard Damon
15 May 24   i `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method2olcott
16 May 24   i  `- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1Richard Damon
16 May 24   +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method4olcott
16 May 24   i+- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1Richard Damon
16 May 24   i`* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method2immibis
16 May 24   i `- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1olcott
16 May 24   +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method2olcott
16 May 24   i`- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1Richard Damon
16 May 24   `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method89olcott
16 May 24    `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method88Richard Damon
16 May 24     `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method87olcott
16 May 24      `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method86Richard Damon
16 May 24       +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method2olcott
16 May 24       i`- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1Richard Damon
16 May 24       +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method5olcott
16 May 24       i`* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method4Richard Damon
16 May 24       i `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method3olcott
17 May 24       i  `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method2Richard Damon
17 May 24       i   `- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1olcott
16 May 24       `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method78olcott
16 May 24        `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method77Richard Damon
16 May 24         `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method76olcott
17 May 24          `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method75Richard Damon
17 May 24           `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method74olcott
17 May 24            `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method73Richard Damon
17 May 24             `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method72olcott
17 May 24              `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method71Richard Damon
17 May 24               +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method68olcott
17 May 24               i`* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method67Richard Damon
17 May 24               i `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method66olcott
18 May 24               i  `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method65Richard Damon
18 May 24               i   `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method64olcott
18 May 24               i    `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method63Richard Damon
18 May 24               i     `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method62olcott
18 May 24               i      `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method61Richard Damon
18 May 24               i       `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method60olcott
18 May 24               i        `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method59Richard Damon
18 May 24               i         `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method58olcott
18 May 24               i          `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method57Richard Damon
18 May 24               i           `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method56olcott
18 May 24               i            `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method55Richard Damon
18 May 24               i             `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method54olcott
18 May 24               i              `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method53Richard Damon
18 May 24               i               +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method2olcott
18 May 24               i               i`- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1Richard Damon
18 May 24               i               `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method50olcott
18 May 24               i                `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method49Richard Damon
18 May 24               i                 `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method48olcott
19 May 24               i                  `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method47Richard Damon
19 May 24               i                   `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method46olcott
19 May 24               i                    `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method45Richard Damon
19 May 24               i                     `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method44olcott
19 May 24               i                      `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method43Richard Damon
19 May 24               i                       `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method42olcott
19 May 24               i                        +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method15Richard Damon
19 May 24               i                        i`* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method14olcott
20 May 24               i                        i +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method12Richard Damon
20 May 24               i                        i i`* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method11olcott
21 May 24               i                        i i `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method10Richard Damon
21 May 24               i                        i i  `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method9olcott
21 May 24               i                        i i   `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method8Richard Damon
21 May 24               i                        i i    `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method7olcott
21 May 24               i                        i i     `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method6Richard Damon
21 May 24               i                        i i      `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method5olcott
21 May 24               i                        i i       `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method4Richard Damon
21 May 24               i                        i i        `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method3olcott
21 May 24               i                        i i         +- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1immibis
22 May 24               i                        i i         `- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1Richard Damon
20 May 24               i                        i `- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1immibis
20 May 24               i                        `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method26olcott
22 May 24               i                         `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)25olcott
23 May 24               i                          `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)24Richard Damon
23 May 24               i                           `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)23olcott
23 May 24               i                            +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)21Richard Damon
23 May 24               i                            i+* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)6olcott
23 May 24               i                            ii`* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)5Richard Damon
23 May 24               i                            ii `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)4olcott
23 May 24               i                            ii  `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)3Richard Damon
23 May 24               i                            ii   `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)2olcott
24 May 24               i                            ii    `- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)1Richard Damon
25 May 24               i                            i`* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)14olcott
27 May 24               i                            i `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)13olcott
27 May 24               i                            i  `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT12olcott
28 May 24               i                            i   `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT11olcott
29 May 24               i                            i    `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT10Richard Damon
23 May 24               i                            `- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)1olcott
17 May 24               `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method2olcott

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