Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method

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Sujet : Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method
De : richard (at) *nospam* damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Groupes : sci.logic comp.theory
Date : 20. May 2024, 00:30:45
Autres entêtes
Organisation : i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID : <v2e236$1g2n8$5@i2pn2.org>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 5/19/24 4:12 PM, olcott wrote:
On 5/19/2024 12:17 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 5/19/24 9:41 AM, olcott wrote:
>
True(L,x) is always a truth bearer.
when x is defined as True(L,x) then x is not a truth bearer.
>
So, x being DEFINED to be a certain sentence doesn't make x to have the same meaning as the sentence itself?
>
What does it mean to define a name to a given sentence, if not that such a name referes to exactly that sentence?
>
 p = ~True(L,p) // p is not a truth bearer because its refers to itself
Then ~True(L,p) can't be a truth beared as they are the SAME STATEMENT, just using different "names".
Just like (with context) YOU can be refered to a PO, Peter, Peter Olcott or Olcott, and all the reference get to the exact same entity, so any "name" for the express

True(L,p)  is false
True(L,~p) is false
 
So since True(L, p) is false, then ~True(L, p) is true.

~True(True(L,p)) is true and is referring to the p that refers
to itself it is not referring to its own self.
 *ONE LEVEL OF INDIRECT REFERENCE MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE*
Why add the indirection? p is the NAME of the statement, which means exactly the same thing as the statement itself.
Is the definition of an English word one level LESS of indirection than the word itself?
I don't think you understand what it means to define something.
"Definition by example" is worse than "Proof by example", at least proof by example can be correct if the assertion is that there exists, and not for all.
A level of indirection:
p: "This sentence is true", which is exactly the same as "p is true" since "this sentence" IS p
p1: The sentence p is true"
THAT is a level of indirection, as p1 refers to a sentence that isn't itself.

 
>
~True(L,x) is always a truth bearer.
when x is defined as ~True(L,x) then x is not a truth bearer.
>
Again, what does "Defined as" mean to you?
>
 x := y means x is defined to be another name for y
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_logic_symbols
So, p := ~True(L, p) means p is just another name, and thus another way to reference

 LP := ~True(L,LP)
means ~True(~True(~True(~True(~True(...)))))
No, it to be what you are meaning, it would be:
LP := ~True(L, LP)
LP := ~True(L, ~True(L, LP))
LP := ~True(L, ~True(L, ~True(L, LP)))
...
And each of these COULD possible be described as adding a level of indirection, as we are affecting how many layers we are applying of the definition.

 It is the common convention to encode self-reference incorrectly.
LP ↔ ~True(L, LP)
     ϕ(x) there is a sentence ψ such that S ⊢ ψ ↔ ϕ⟨ψ⟩.
The sentence ψ is of course not self-referential in a
strict sense, but mathematically it behaves like one.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/self-reference/
 <big snip>
 *Usenet Article Lookup*
http://al.howardknight.net/ chops off long posts
Since we can no longer use Google Groups to link to recent posts.
 

Date Sujet#  Auteur
14 May 24 * Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard !113Richard Damon
14 May 24 +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard !2olcott
14 May 24 i`- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard !1Richard Damon
14 May 24 `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method110olcott
14 May 24  `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method109Richard Damon
14 May 24   +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method2olcott
14 May 24   i`- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1Richard Damon
14 May 24   +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method5olcott
14 May 24   i`* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method4Richard Damon
14 May 24   i +- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1wij
14 May 24   i `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method2olcott
15 May 24   i  `- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1Richard Damon
15 May 24   +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method2olcott
15 May 24   i`- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1Richard Damon
15 May 24   +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method4olcott
15 May 24   i`* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method3Richard Damon
15 May 24   i `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method2olcott
16 May 24   i  `- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1Richard Damon
16 May 24   +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method4olcott
16 May 24   i+- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1Richard Damon
16 May 24   i`* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method2immibis
16 May 24   i `- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1olcott
16 May 24   +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method2olcott
16 May 24   i`- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1Richard Damon
16 May 24   `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method89olcott
16 May 24    `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method88Richard Damon
16 May 24     `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method87olcott
16 May 24      `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method86Richard Damon
16 May 24       +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method2olcott
16 May 24       i`- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1Richard Damon
16 May 24       +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method5olcott
16 May 24       i`* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method4Richard Damon
16 May 24       i `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method3olcott
17 May 24       i  `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method2Richard Damon
17 May 24       i   `- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1olcott
16 May 24       `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method78olcott
16 May 24        `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method77Richard Damon
16 May 24         `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method76olcott
17 May 24          `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method75Richard Damon
17 May 24           `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method74olcott
17 May 24            `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method73Richard Damon
17 May 24             `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method72olcott
17 May 24              `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method71Richard Damon
17 May 24               +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method68olcott
17 May 24               i`* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method67Richard Damon
17 May 24               i `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method66olcott
18 May 24               i  `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method65Richard Damon
18 May 24               i   `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method64olcott
18 May 24               i    `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method63Richard Damon
18 May 24               i     `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method62olcott
18 May 24               i      `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method61Richard Damon
18 May 24               i       `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method60olcott
18 May 24               i        `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method59Richard Damon
18 May 24               i         `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method58olcott
18 May 24               i          `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method57Richard Damon
18 May 24               i           `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method56olcott
18 May 24               i            `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method55Richard Damon
18 May 24               i             `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method54olcott
18 May 24               i              `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method53Richard Damon
18 May 24               i               +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method2olcott
18 May 24               i               i`- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1Richard Damon
18 May 24               i               `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method50olcott
18 May 24               i                `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method49Richard Damon
18 May 24               i                 `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method48olcott
19 May 24               i                  `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method47Richard Damon
19 May 24               i                   `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method46olcott
19 May 24               i                    `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method45Richard Damon
19 May 24               i                     `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method44olcott
19 May 24               i                      `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method43Richard Damon
19 May 24               i                       `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method42olcott
19 May 24               i                        +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method15Richard Damon
19 May 24               i                        i`* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method14olcott
20 May 24               i                        i +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method12Richard Damon
20 May 24               i                        i i`* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method11olcott
21 May 24               i                        i i `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method10Richard Damon
21 May 24               i                        i i  `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method9olcott
21 May 24               i                        i i   `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method8Richard Damon
21 May 24               i                        i i    `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method7olcott
21 May 24               i                        i i     `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method6Richard Damon
21 May 24               i                        i i      `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method5olcott
21 May 24               i                        i i       `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method4Richard Damon
21 May 24               i                        i i        `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method3olcott
21 May 24               i                        i i         +- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1immibis
22 May 24               i                        i i         `- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1Richard Damon
20 May 24               i                        i `- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method1immibis
20 May 24               i                        `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method26olcott
22 May 24               i                         `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)25olcott
23 May 24               i                          `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)24Richard Damon
23 May 24               i                           `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)23olcott
23 May 24               i                            +* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)21Richard Damon
23 May 24               i                            i+* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)6olcott
23 May 24               i                            ii`* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)5Richard Damon
23 May 24               i                            ii `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)4olcott
23 May 24               i                            ii  `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)3Richard Damon
23 May 24               i                            ii   `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)2olcott
24 May 24               i                            ii    `- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)1Richard Damon
25 May 24               i                            i`* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)14olcott
27 May 24               i                            i `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)13olcott
27 May 24               i                            i  `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT12olcott
28 May 24               i                            i   `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT11olcott
29 May 24               i                            i    `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method MTT10Richard Damon
23 May 24               i                            `- Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method (agreement)1olcott
17 May 24               `* Re: True on the basis of meaning --- Good job Richard ! ---Socratic method2olcott

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