Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller

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Sujet : Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller
De : richard (at) *nospam* damon-family.org (Richard Damon)
Groupes : comp.theory sci.logic
Date : 07. Jul 2025, 03:09:43
Autres entêtes
Organisation : i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID : <1ca786773f9ff02718c66e082bbc4182b36732ab@i2pn2.org>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 7/6/25 4:06 PM, olcott wrote:
On 7/6/2025 12:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 7/6/25 11:19 AM, olcott wrote:
On 7/6/2025 6:50 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 7/6/25 12:34 AM, olcott wrote:
On 7/5/2025 10:02 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 7/5/25 10:43 PM, olcott wrote:
On 7/5/2025 7:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 7/5/25 12:26 PM, olcott wrote:
On 7/5/2025 8:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 7/4/25 6:11 PM, olcott wrote:
On 7/4/2025 3:53 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 7/4/25 4:43 PM, olcott wrote:
On 6/3/2025 10:02 PM, dbush wrote:
On 6/3/2025 10:58 PM, olcott wrote:
On 6/3/2025 9:46 PM, dbush wrote:
On 6/3/2025 10:34 PM, olcott wrote:
On 6/3/2025 9:12 PM, dbush wrote:
>
Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of instructions) X described as <X> with input Y:
>
A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that computes the following mapping:
>
(<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
(<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed directly
>
>
Yes there is no algorithm that does that
>
Excellent!
>
Let The Record Show
>
That Peter Olcott
>
Has *EXPLICITLY* admitted
>
That no algorithm H exists that meets the above requirements, which is precisely the theorem that the halting problem proofs prove.
>
In the exact same way that there is no set of all set
that contain themselves. ZFC did not solve Russell's
Paradox as much as it showed that Russell's Paradox
was anchored in an incoherent foundation, now called
naive set theory.
>
Which arose because the axioms of naive set theory created a contradiction.
>
>
Likewise with halt deciders that are required to report
on the behavior of directly executed Turing machines.
>
And what is the CONTRADICTION?
>
The result is just some things are not computable.
>
>
The result is that there cannot possibly be
an *ACTUAL INPUT* that does the opposite of
whatever its partial halt decider decides
thus the HP proof fails before it begins.
>
>
Sure there is.
>
>
In order to have an honest dialogue you must pay
100% complete attention to every single word.
>
You can't just erase one of the words that I said
and then form a rebuttal on that basis.
>
Directly executed Turing machines have always been
outside of the domain of every Turing machine based
decider.
>
>
>
Nope.
>
Your refusal to providee a source is your admission that you are just a liar.
>
Remember, The DEFINITION of a Halt Deicder is that it is to be a decider that decides if the program represented by its input will halt when run.
>
>
It has never been the program represented by its input
it has always been the behavior specified by its input.
This is the key mistake that no one noticed in 90 years.
>
Really?
>
In computability theory, the halting problem is the problem of determining, from a description of an arbitrary computer program and an input, whether the program will finish running, or continue to run forever.
>
Sounds like the program and its representation.
>
>
With pathological self-reference the directly
executed machine will not have the same
behavior as the correctly simulated machine
specification.
>
Sure it does.
>
>
void DDD()
{
   HHH(DDD);
   return;
}
>
*EVERY BOT FIGURES THIS OUT ON ITS OWN*
>
No, it just isn't smart enough to detect that you lied in your premise.
>
There is no way that DDD simulated by HHH (according
to the semantics of the C programming language)
can possibly reach its own "return" statement final
halt state.
>
And there is no way for HHH to correctly simulate its input and return an answer
>
 You insistence that a non-terminating input be simulated
until non-existent completion is especially nuts because
you have been told about this dozens of times.
 What the F is wrong with you?
 
It seems you don't understand those words.
I don't say that the decider needs to simulate the input to completion, but that it needs to be able to actually PROVE that if this exact input WAS given to a correct simultor (which won't be itself, since it isn't doing the complete simulation) will run for an unbounded number of steps.
The "behavior" of the input isn't a subjective property, that is dependent on something about the decider, but is an objective property that is only a function of the input (which includes what HHH that given DDD was paired with).
Your confusion with the TRUTH of what that (perhaps just hypothetical) correct simulation does, with the KNOWLEDGE that the decider got by its (partial) simulation just shows you stupidity.
The fact that you keep on working with self-contradictory equivocations on what "the input" means just shows the level of your deceit (or stupidity).
If "the input" that represents DDD doesn't include the code for HHH, then it is just impossible to simulate it past the call instruction.
If "the input" that represents DDD does include the code for HHH, then that input defines the only HHH that exists with this DDD, and thus when you talk about different HHHs looking at "the input" you are lying, as they are each looking at DIFFERENT inputs.
Thus, your whole argument is just based on LYING because you just don't understand (and actively refuse to understand) the meaning of basics like what a program is, what halting is, what a "correct simulation" is, or even what "the input" means.
Sorru, you are just proving how ignorant you are.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
3 Jun 25 * My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller165olcott
4 Jun 25 +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller102dbush
4 Jun 25 i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller101olcott
4 Jun 25 i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller99dbush
4 Jun 25 i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller98olcott
4 Jun 25 i i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller97dbush
4 Jun 25 i i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller96olcott
4 Jun 25 i i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller95dbush
4 Jul21:43 i i    `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller94olcott
4 Jul21:53 i i     `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller93Richard Damon
4 Jul23:11 i i      +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller82olcott
5 Jul14:14 i i      i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller81Richard Damon
5 Jul17:26 i i      i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller80olcott
6 Jul01:44 i i      i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller79Richard Damon
6 Jul04:02 i i      i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller78Richard Damon
6 Jul05:34 i i      i    `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller77olcott
6 Jul10:32 i i      i     +- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Fred. Zwarts
6 Jul12:50 i i      i     `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller75Richard Damon
6 Jul16:19 i i      i      `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller74olcott
6 Jul18:00 i i      i       `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller73Richard Damon
6 Jul21:06 i i      i        `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller72olcott
7 Jul03:09 i i      i         +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller70Richard Damon
7 Jul04:12 i i      i         i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller69olcott
7 Jul08:36 i i      i         i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller41Fred. Zwarts
7 Jul14:23 i i      i         i i+* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller6olcott
8 Jul09:10 i i      i         i ii`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller5Fred. Zwarts
8 Jul15:59 i i      i         i ii `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller4olcott
9 Jul10:58 i i      i         i ii  +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2Fred. Zwarts
9 Jul14:46 i i      i         i ii  i`- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1olcott
9 Jul12:32 i i      i         i ii  `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
7 Jul19:38 i i      i         i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller34olcott
7 Jul23:41 i i      i         i i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller32Richard Damon
8 Jul00:52 i i      i         i i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller31olcott
8 Jul03:18 i i      i         i i i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller30Richard Damon
8 Jul03:38 i i      i         i i i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller29olcott
8 Jul08:15 i i      i         i i i   +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller9joes
8 Jul15:14 i i      i         i i i   i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller8olcott
8 Jul17:10 i i      i         i i i   i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller6joes
8 Jul17:22 i i      i         i i i   i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller5olcott
8 Jul18:44 i i      i         i i i   i i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3joes
8 Jul19:21 i i      i         i i i   i i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
9 Jul12:38 i i      i         i i i   i i i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
9 Jul12:36 i i      i         i i i   i i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
9 Jul12:34 i i      i         i i i   i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
8 Jul12:13 i i      i         i i i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller19Richard Damon
8 Jul16:08 i i      i         i i i    `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller18olcott
8 Jul17:07 i i      i         i i i     +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller14joes
8 Jul17:19 i i      i         i i i     i+* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
8 Jul23:33 i i      i         i i i     ii`- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
8 Jul20:01 i i      i         i i i     i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller11Mike Terry
8 Jul20:49 i i      i         i i i     i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller10olcott
9 Jul02:30 i i      i         i i i     i  +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
9 Jul12:48 i i      i         i i i     i  i`- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
9 Jul10:09 i i      i         i i i     i  +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3Fred. Zwarts
9 Jul14:35 i i      i         i i i     i  i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
10 Jul02:39 i i      i         i i i     i  i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
9 Jul12:44 i i      i         i i i     i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller4Richard Damon
9 Jul14:55 i i      i         i i i     i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike3olcott
10 Jul02:49 i i      i         i i i     i    `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike2Richard Damon
10 Jul03:50 i i      i         i i i     i     `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike1olcott
8 Jul23:31 i i      i         i i i     `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3Richard Damon
8 Jul23:51 i i      i         i i i      `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
9 Jul12:51 i i      i         i i i       `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
8 Jul09:17 i i      i         i i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Fred. Zwarts
7 Jul09:37 i i      i         i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller8Mikko
7 Jul15:15 i i      i         i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller7olcott
7 Jul23:45 i i      i         i i +- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
8 Jul08:44 i i      i         i i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller5Mikko
8 Jul15:21 i i      i         i i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller4olcott
9 Jul09:22 i i      i         i i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3Mikko
9 Jul13:25 i i      i         i i    `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
10 Jul03:00 i i      i         i i     `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
7 Jul12:19 i i      i         i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller19Richard Damon
7 Jul14:32 i i      i         i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller18olcott
7 Jul23:39 i i      i         i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller17Richard Damon
8 Jul00:47 i i      i         i    `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller16olcott
8 Jul03:24 i i      i         i     `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller15Richard Damon
8 Jul03:52 i i      i         i      `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller14olcott
8 Jul08:55 i i      i         i       +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller4Fred. Zwarts
8 Jul15:31 i i      i         i       i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3olcott
9 Jul10:04 i i      i         i       i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2Fred. Zwarts
9 Jul14:16 i i      i         i       i  `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1olcott
8 Jul12:18 i i      i         i       `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller9Richard Damon
8 Jul16:17 i i      i         i        `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller8olcott
9 Jul09:58 i i      i         i         +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller6Fred. Zwarts
9 Jul14:02 i i      i         i         i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller5olcott
9 Jul14:37 i i      i         i         i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller4joes
9 Jul15:06 i i      i         i         i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3olcott
9 Jul16:42 i i      i         i         i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2joes
9 Jul17:06 i i      i         i         i    `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1olcott
9 Jul13:00 i i      i         i         `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
7 Jul09:34 i i      i         `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Mikko
4 Jul23:15 i i      +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller9olcott
5 Jul08:39 i i      i+* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller5Fred. Zwarts
5 Jul17:12 i i      ii`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller4olcott
6 Jul10:24 i i      ii `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3Fred. Zwarts
6 Jul16:36 i i      ii  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
7 Jul08:42 i i      ii   `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Fred. Zwarts
5 Jul14:20 i i      i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3Richard Damon
5 Jul17:31 i i      i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
6 Jul01:47 i i      i  `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
5 Jul16:11 i i      `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1olcott
4 Jun 25 i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
4 Jun 25 +- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
4 Jun 25 `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller61Mikko

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