Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller

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Sujet : Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller
De : polcott333 (at) *nospam* gmail.com (olcott)
Groupes : comp.theory sci.logic
Date : 08. Jul 2025, 15:59:01
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <104jbnl$3jrpl$7@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 7/8/2025 3:10 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
Op 07.jul.2025 om 15:23 schreef olcott:
On 7/7/2025 2:36 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
Op 07.jul.2025 om 05:12 schreef olcott:
On 7/6/2025 9:09 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 7/6/25 4:06 PM, olcott wrote:
On 7/6/2025 12:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
On 7/6/25 11:19 AM, olcott wrote:
>
void DDD()
{
   HHH(DDD);
   return;
}
>
*EVERY BOT FIGURES THIS OUT ON ITS OWN*
>
No, it just isn't smart enough to detect that you lied in your premise.
>
There is no way that DDD simulated by HHH (according
to the semantics of the C programming language)
can possibly reach its own "return" statement final
halt state.
>
And there is no way for HHH to correctly simulate its input and return an answer
>
>
You insistence that a non-terminating input be simulated
until non-existent completion is especially nuts because
you have been told about this dozens of times.
>
What the F is wrong with you?
>
>
It seems you don't understand those words.
>
I don't say that the decider needs to simulate the input to completion, but that it needs to be able to actually PROVE that if this exact input WAS given to a correct simultor (which won't be itself, since it isn't doing the complete simulation) will run for an unbounded number of steps.
>
>
No decider is ever allowed to report on anything
besides the actual behavior that its input actually
specifies.
>
And HHH does not do that. The input specifies a halting program, because it includes the abort code.
>
>
void DDD()
{
   HHH(DDD);
   return;
}
>
_DDD()
[00002192] 55             push ebp
[00002193] 8bec           mov ebp,esp
[00002195] 6892210000     push 00002192  // push DDD
[0000219a] e833f4ffff     call 000015d2  // call HHH
[0000219f] 83c404         add esp,+04
[000021a2] 5d             pop ebp
[000021a3] c3             ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [000021a3]
>
That does have an effect on DDD emulated by HHH according
to the semantics of the x86 language stopping running.
It has no effect on this DDD every reaching its final halt
state. I have corrected your error on this too many times
you don't seem to want an honest dialogue.
 As usual repeated claims without evidence.
100% *complete proof is provided above*
That you don't have sufficient technical
skill to see that this is complete proof
is not my mistake.

It is a pity that you ignore or do not understand the corrections that have been pointed out to you. Not understanding something is not stupid, but resistance against learning from errors is.
 
DDD correctly simulated by HHH calls HHH(DDD)
that simulates DDD that calls HHH(DDD)
that simulates DDD that calls HHH(DDD)
that simulates DDD that calls HHH(DDD)
that simulates DDD that calls HHH(DDD)
that simulates DDD that calls HHH(DDD)
that simulates DDD that calls HHH(DDD)...
That you cannot see that this is the behavior
that the input to HHH(DDD) specifies is your
own lack of technical skill.
*Maybe it is time to reveal credentials*
I have taken all but one of the courses
for a computer science degree and been a
C++ software engineer for two decades.
Mensa scored my IQ is in the top 3%.

We have pointed out already many times that this cannot be the whole input. At 0000219a there is a call to 000015d2 , but the code at 000015d2 is not specified.
https://liarparadox.org/HHH(DDD)_Full_Trace.pdf
Because of the required cooperative multi-tasking
it is a little too difficult to see which the
actual trace.

We have to take it from another source, your Halt7.c. There we see that HHH is a function that returns with a value 0 with this input. So, a correct simulation will then continue at 0000219f
DDD simulated by HHH according to the semantics of the x86
language cannot possibly ever get there even of your lack
of sufficient technical skill tells you so.
*Feel free to dig through this full trace and see*
https://liarparadox.org/HHH(DDD)_Full_Trace.pdf

with this value and even a beginner sees that the simulation will then reach a natural end.
*DDD simulated by HHH NEVER REACHES ITS FINAL HALT STATE*
DDD correctly simulated by HHH calls HHH(DDD)
that simulates DDD that calls HHH(DDD)
that simulates DDD that calls HHH(DDD)
that simulates DDD that calls HHH(DDD)
that simulates DDD that calls HHH(DDD)
that simulates DDD that calls HHH(DDD)
that simulates DDD that calls HHH(DDD)...

This is the full specification of the input.
This is also proven when exactly the same input is used in direct execution, or by world-class simulators, even by HHH1.
So, the following still holds:
 
>
But HHH gives up before it reaches that part of the specification and the final halt state.
If HHH does not see the full specification, it does not change the specification. It only illustrates the failure of the simulation to complete.
There is nothing wrong with aborting a simulation, because it is known that simulation is not always the correct tool to determine halting/non- halting behaviour. In such cases other tools are needed to determine halting/non-halting behaviour.
--
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

Date Sujet#  Auteur
3 Jun 25 * My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller160olcott
4 Jun 25 +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller97dbush
4 Jun 25 i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller96olcott
4 Jun 25 i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller94dbush
4 Jun 25 i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller93olcott
4 Jun 25 i i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller92dbush
4 Jun 25 i i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller91olcott
4 Jun 25 i i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller90dbush
4 Jul21:43 i i    `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller89olcott
4 Jul21:53 i i     `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller88Richard Damon
4 Jul23:11 i i      +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller77olcott
5 Jul14:14 i i      i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller76Richard Damon
5 Jul17:26 i i      i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller75olcott
6 Jul01:44 i i      i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller74Richard Damon
6 Jul04:02 i i      i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller73Richard Damon
6 Jul05:34 i i      i    `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller72olcott
6 Jul10:32 i i      i     +- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Fred. Zwarts
6 Jul12:50 i i      i     `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller70Richard Damon
6 Jul16:19 i i      i      `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller69olcott
6 Jul18:00 i i      i       `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller68Richard Damon
6 Jul21:06 i i      i        `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller67olcott
7 Jul03:09 i i      i         +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller65Richard Damon
7 Jul04:12 i i      i         i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller64olcott
7 Jul08:36 i i      i         i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller38Fred. Zwarts
7 Jul14:23 i i      i         i i+* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller6olcott
8 Jul09:10 i i      i         i ii`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller5Fred. Zwarts
8 Jul15:59 i i      i         i ii `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller4olcott
9 Jul10:58 i i      i         i ii  +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2Fred. Zwarts
9 Jul14:46 i i      i         i ii  i`- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1olcott
9 Jul12:32 i i      i         i ii  `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
7 Jul19:38 i i      i         i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller31olcott
7 Jul23:41 i i      i         i i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller29Richard Damon
8 Jul00:52 i i      i         i i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller28olcott
8 Jul03:18 i i      i         i i i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller27Richard Damon
8 Jul03:38 i i      i         i i i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller26olcott
8 Jul08:15 i i      i         i i i   +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller9joes
8 Jul15:14 i i      i         i i i   i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller8olcott
8 Jul17:10 i i      i         i i i   i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller6joes
8 Jul17:22 i i      i         i i i   i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller5olcott
8 Jul18:44 i i      i         i i i   i i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3joes
8 Jul19:21 i i      i         i i i   i i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
9 Jul12:38 i i      i         i i i   i i i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
9 Jul12:36 i i      i         i i i   i i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
9 Jul12:34 i i      i         i i i   i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
8 Jul12:13 i i      i         i i i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller16Richard Damon
8 Jul16:08 i i      i         i i i    `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller15olcott
8 Jul17:07 i i      i         i i i     +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller11joes
8 Jul17:19 i i      i         i i i     i+* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
8 Jul23:33 i i      i         i i i     ii`- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
8 Jul20:01 i i      i         i i i     i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller8Mike Terry
8 Jul20:49 i i      i         i i i     i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller7olcott
9 Jul02:30 i i      i         i i i     i  +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
9 Jul12:48 i i      i         i i i     i  i`- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
9 Jul10:09 i i      i         i i i     i  +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2Fred. Zwarts
9 Jul14:35 i i      i         i i i     i  i`- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1olcott
9 Jul12:44 i i      i         i i i     i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2Richard Damon
9 Jul14:55 i i      i         i i i     i   `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller --- Mike1olcott
8 Jul23:31 i i      i         i i i     `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3Richard Damon
8 Jul23:51 i i      i         i i i      `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
9 Jul12:51 i i      i         i i i       `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
8 Jul09:17 i i      i         i i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Fred. Zwarts
7 Jul09:37 i i      i         i +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller7Mikko
7 Jul15:15 i i      i         i i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller6olcott
7 Jul23:45 i i      i         i i +- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
8 Jul08:44 i i      i         i i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller4Mikko
8 Jul15:21 i i      i         i i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3olcott
9 Jul09:22 i i      i         i i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2Mikko
9 Jul13:25 i i      i         i i    `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1olcott
7 Jul12:19 i i      i         i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller18Richard Damon
7 Jul14:32 i i      i         i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller17olcott
7 Jul23:39 i i      i         i   `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller16Richard Damon
8 Jul00:47 i i      i         i    `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller15olcott
8 Jul03:24 i i      i         i     `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller14Richard Damon
8 Jul03:52 i i      i         i      `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller13olcott
8 Jul08:55 i i      i         i       +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller4Fred. Zwarts
8 Jul15:31 i i      i         i       i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3olcott
9 Jul10:04 i i      i         i       i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2Fred. Zwarts
9 Jul14:16 i i      i         i       i  `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1olcott
8 Jul12:18 i i      i         i       `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller8Richard Damon
8 Jul16:17 i i      i         i        `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller7olcott
9 Jul09:58 i i      i         i         +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller5Fred. Zwarts
9 Jul14:02 i i      i         i         i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller4olcott
9 Jul14:37 i i      i         i         i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3joes
9 Jul15:06 i i      i         i         i  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
9 Jul16:42 i i      i         i         i   `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1joes
9 Jul13:00 i i      i         i         `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
7 Jul09:34 i i      i         `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Mikko
4 Jul23:15 i i      +* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller9olcott
5 Jul08:39 i i      i+* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller5Fred. Zwarts
5 Jul17:12 i i      ii`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller4olcott
6 Jul10:24 i i      ii `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3Fred. Zwarts
6 Jul16:36 i i      ii  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
7 Jul08:42 i i      ii   `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Fred. Zwarts
5 Jul14:20 i i      i`* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller3Richard Damon
5 Jul17:31 i i      i `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller2olcott
6 Jul01:47 i i      i  `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
5 Jul16:11 i i      `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1olcott
4 Jun 25 i `- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
4 Jun 25 +- Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller1Richard Damon
4 Jun 25 `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller61Mikko
4 Jun 25  `* Re: My reviewers think that halt deciders must report on the behavior of their caller60olcott

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