Re: Want to prove E=mc²? University labs should try this!

On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 21:27:28 +0000, gharnagel wrote:

On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 15:42:32 +0000, rhertz wrote:

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On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 5:22:33 +0000, gharnagel wrote:

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On Sun, 17 Nov 2024 4:22:43 +0000, rhertz wrote:

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Not me. Is ChatGPT that indicates that there are no
historical records about experiments of this kind.
Maybe BECAUSE nobody like the results.
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Even when it operates near the limits of technology
available for the last 20 years, the concept itself
is extremely simple to understand and, as ChatGPT
wrote, it's a novel way to prove/disprove E=mc² at
optical level.

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Seems to me that the chatGPT estimate was extremely optimistic.
The maximum energy built up will be limited by the input energy
during each pass of the storage beam.  If the cavity were one
meter long, the time per pass would be 1/c.  How much energy
does a 5 W laser put out during that time? 1.67e-8 J.
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If the end mirror absorbs 0.00001 of the energy per reflection,
the maximum energy in the cavity would reach only .00167 J.
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You might get a 10x improvement of reflectivity and make the
cavity 10 m long, but you're still a long way from your dream,
methinks.  A scales to weigh a 10 meter pipe seems a bit
unwieldy to me.  You think maybe I made a mistake?  Check it
out yourself.

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You are confusing cavity with something else.

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"cavity: an unfilled space within a mass, especially: a hollowed-out
space"
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I suggest you to read about the cavities used at Berlin University
during 1893-1900 (Wien, Planck - 2 Nobel Prize on the same matter),
and how to measure black body radiation.

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I have used such cavities many times to calibrate light sources.
I suggest you reread what I wrote, particularly how many orders of
magnitude a practical system is away from your required energy.
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I just thought of the exact opposite use of the small orifice:
to allow the laser beam to ENTER into the perfectly reflecting
cavity, with irregular inner coating, what allow that the laser
beam be dispersed within the small cavity, being confined there.
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The laser beam can't escape,

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Actually, it can: through the hole.  1 m diameter ball, 1 mm diameter
hole ==> 0.0001% loss.  Still many orders of magnitude away.  The
light still bounces off the wall of the sphere more often that in
a linear cavity.  But you can probably get up to higher energy in
the ball this way. 5W continuous input would get you to 5 MW,
assuming no losses on the bounces, which is wildly optimistic.
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LIGO array use lasers in the kilowatt range, mirrors with almost
100% reflectivity, etc.

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"Almost" isn't good enough.  You're still orders of magnitude away
from a practical experiment, which is why no one has attempted one.

Obviously, there is a problem understanding the proposed experiment.
*******************************************************************
1) ABOUT THE DIFFERENTIAL ELECTROMAGNETIC BALANCE (there are other
means):
I propose to use TWO DEB, similar to the one of which I posted a link:
Homemade Microgram Electrobalance
https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/equipment/scale.html
The output of the two sensors are connected to electronics, which can
REST, filter and process the electrical output of the EB. The result,
once calibrated to be ZERO while the laser is off, will be a LINEAR
relation between weight difference and voltage, in the order of
nanograms.
The DEB will be working in a vacuum, with a Faraday-like dome, and
floating on a mercury bed (to filter vibrations, noise and EM
interferences. It also will be compensated in temperature by means to
cool it off and measure the heat excess that's eliminated.
*******************************************************************
2) ABOUT THE CAVITY:
It has not to be a perfect sphere. On the contrary.
Imagine that you take 2 mg of aluminum foil and build a case with it,
having dimensions of about 1,000 cm³. The inner coating, made of highly
reflective material, has artificial irregularities much narrower than
the laser wavelength (green, 550 nm), such that the laser beam (1 mm
radius) spread all over the interior of the cavity, with a very small
percentage escaping through the 2 mm orifice.
If necessary, make the external laser device to spatially oscillate
slowly a little amount (by mechanical means) to assure that the beam is
hitting different spots within the cavity. That will spread the
radiation all over inside its volume.
Two identical cavities are built, being each one placed on the DEB.
Their weight (a few grams) will be subtracted from their electrical
outputs, so that (in perfect balance and equilibrium), the output will
read 0.000 nanograms.
*******************************************************************
3) ABOUT THE DIFFERENT LOSSES:
Every deviation from a perfect setup, due to different losses and
perturbations, will be measured and considered in the final result.
The differential output signal [linear function of the weight
difference] will be processed to filter NOISE, including the electrical
noise (in the order of nanovolts) generated by the EM mechanisms.
******************************************************************
4) ABOUT THE ACCUMULATION OF ENERGY INSIDE THE CAVITY 1:
If the reflected laser beams are almost 100% reflected and only a very
small fraction of energy dissipates as heat (0.001%), the energy will
accumulate linearly with time:
5 W x 1 Hr = 18,000 Joules per hour
By m=E/c², it represents 2.0E-10 gram of mass per hour.
In 72 hours, the accumulated energy within the cavity represents
1.44E-08 gram of mass.
This value of mass represents 0.1398 microNewtons in 72 hours.
Such values are perfectly in the range of measurement for current
technologies (state of the art).
Check my second link of a lab balance ($10,000), capable of measuring
weight (mass equivalence) in the order of 0.1 microNewtons.
Imagine what can be built investing $ 100,000 or $ 1,000,000 in a
qualified lab.
*****************************************************************
This experiment allows to probe/disprove E = mc² in the real world, not
in the fairy land of the quantum/atomic world.