the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics

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Sujet : the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics
De : r.hachel (at) *nospam* wanadou.fr (Richard Hachel)
Groupes : sci.physics.relativity
Date : 02. Aug 2024, 15:06:56
Autres entêtes
Organisation : Nemoweb
Message-ID : <GBEGTHyJnMpjHuJ0IoZO0OLSc1M@jntp>
User-Agent : Nemo/0.999a
I was saying, unlike Albert Einstein, that the mathematics of the theory of relativity is very simple, but that it is full of little traps.
He says the opposite: that it is very difficult, but that there are no traps.
One of the main traps may be the notion of counter-intuitiveness.
If we ask someone what will happen if we head towards a star at Vo=0.8c, or two hundred and forty thousand km/s, if I am 9 light years from this star, the person who does not know anything about it will first say that nothing happens at all, that the notion of space is absolute, and that, at that moment, I am simply 9 light years from the star.
This is the level of a twelve-year-old kid who doesn't understand anything about RR, or the level of a 19th-century physicist.
But we can notice that a big shot today is not necessarily less stupid, because a big shot of relativity (let's take the case of Python who deserves to have his intellectual flaws denounced) will, by "intuitiveness" say that the space between him and the star will contract.
This obviously seems quite intuitive if we have, like him, what a jerk this Python is, "a little" learned the theory.
But, precisely, it is too intuitive, and the truth will come like a big slap, because it is terribly counter-intuitive and astonishing (if we understand the Poincaré transformations correctly).
A bit like the children of the islands of South Asia, who are warned to quickly climb to the heights
if the sea suddenly recedes, and who immediately do not understand why they must flee, when the sea is going away. Tsunami concept.
The correct formula is not the one given by Mr. Einstein, and it is not D'=D.sqrt(1-Vo²/c²)
that must be applied, but D'=D.sqrt[(1+Vo/c)/(1-Vo/c)].
At this moment, the star is not 9 ly (Newton), nor 5.4 ly (Einstein), it is much, much much further away (I'll let you calculate, because it's always good to teach by asking students to UNDERSTAND for themselves, and not stupidly recite what Richard Hachel says), and it is heading towards the rocket with an apparent speed of 4c.
That a star appears to move away from me very quickly as I increase my speed towards it is incredibly counter-intuitive.
That's what counter-intuitiveness is.
And it can block 120 years of theoretical physics as long as we don't believe in it.
R.H.

Date Sujet#  Auteur
2 Aug 24 * the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics98Richard Hachel
7 Aug 24 `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics97JanPB
7 Aug 24  +* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics95Richard Hachel
7 Aug 24  i+* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics93gharnagel
7 Aug 24  ii`* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics92Richard Hachel
7 Aug 24  ii +* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics3Python
7 Aug 24  ii i`* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics2Richard Hachel
7 Aug 24  ii i `- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1J. J. Lodder
7 Aug 24  ii +* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics20gharnagel
7 Aug 24  ii i`* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics19Richard Hachel
8 Aug 24  ii i `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics18Python
8 Aug 24  ii i  +* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics7Richard Hachel
8 Aug 24  ii i  i`* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics6Python
8 Aug 24  ii i  i `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics5Richard Hachel
8 Aug 24  ii i  i  `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics4Python
8 Aug 24  ii i  i   `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics3Richard Hachel
8 Aug 24  ii i  i    `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics2Python
8 Aug 24  ii i  i     `- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1Richard Hachel
8 Aug 24  ii i  `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics10Tush-Ee Bouloukos
8 Aug 24  ii i   `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics9Python
8 Aug 24  ii i    `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics8Deury Echevarría
8 Aug 24  ii i     `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics7Python
8 Aug 24  ii i      `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics6Gilbert Guérin
8 Aug 24  ii i       `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics5Python
8 Aug 24  ii i        `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics4Stony Gergely
8 Aug 24  ii i         +* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics2Python
8 Aug 24  ii i         i`- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1Porcher Leblanc
8 Aug 24  ii i         `- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1Python
7 Aug 24  ii `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics68J. J. Lodder
7 Aug 24  ii  +* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics63Richard Hachel
8 Aug 24  ii  i+* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics2gharnagel
8 Aug 24  ii  ii`- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1Maciej Wozniak
8 Aug 24  ii  i+- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1J. J. Lodder
9 Aug 24  ii  i+* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics57JanPB
9 Aug 24  ii  ii+* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics4Ernie Sokolowski
11 Aug 24  ii  iii`* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics3Thomas Heger
11 Aug 24  ii  iii +- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1Chris M. Thomasson
11 Aug 24  ii  iii `- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1Clas Babanin
10 Aug 24  ii  ii`* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics52Richard Hachel
10 Aug 24  ii  ii `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics51gharnagel
10 Aug 24  ii  ii  +* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics27Maciej Wozniak
10 Aug 24  ii  ii  i`* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics26gharnagel
10 Aug 24  ii  ii  i `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics25Python
10 Aug 24  ii  ii  i  +* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics6Richard Hachel
10 Aug 24  ii  ii  i  i`* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics5Python
10 Aug 24  ii  ii  i  i +- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1Richard Hachel
11 Aug 24  ii  ii  i  i `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics3Athel Cornish-Bowden
11 Aug 24  ii  ii  i  i  `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics2Richard Hachel
11 Aug 24  ii  ii  i  i   `- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1Python
10 Aug 24  ii  ii  i  +- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1Maciej Wozniak
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10 Aug 24  ii  ii  i    `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics15gharnagel
10 Aug 24  ii  ii  i     +* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics13Python
10 Aug 24  ii  ii  i     i+* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics11Maciej Wozniak
10 Aug 24  ii  ii  i     ii`* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics10Python
10 Aug 24  ii  ii  i     ii `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics9Maciej Wozniak
10 Aug 24  ii  ii  i     ii  +* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics7Python
10 Aug 24  ii  ii  i     ii  i`* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics6Python
10 Aug 24  ii  ii  i     ii  i `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics5Python
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11 Aug 24  ii  ii  i     ii  i   `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics3Python
11 Aug 24  ii  ii  i     ii  i    `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics2Python
11 Aug 24  ii  ii  i     ii  i     `- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1Maciej Wozniak
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10 Aug 24  ii  ii  i`- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1Maciej Wozniak
10 Aug 24  ii  ii  +* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics19Richard Hachel
10 Aug 24  ii  ii  i`* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics18gharnagel
11 Aug 24  ii  ii  i +* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics2Richard Hachel
11 Aug 24  ii  ii  i i`- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1gharnagel
11 Aug 24  ii  ii  i `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics15Richard Hachel
11 Aug 24  ii  ii  i  `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics14gharnagel
11 Aug 24  ii  ii  i   +- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1Ross Finlayson
11 Aug 24  ii  ii  i   +* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics10Richard Hachel
11 Aug 24  ii  ii  i   i`* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics9gharnagel
11 Aug 24  ii  ii  i   i +- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1Richard Hachel
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11 Aug 24  ii  ii  i   i  `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics4Python
11 Aug 24  ii  ii  i   i   `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics3Richard Hachel
11 Aug 24  ii  ii  i   i    +- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1Python
11 Aug 24  ii  ii  i   i    `- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1Zasko Mihalkov
11 Aug 24  ii  ii  i   `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics2Python
11 Aug 24  ii  ii  i    `- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1Python
10 Aug 24  ii  ii  +- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1Richard Hachel
10 Aug 24  ii  ii  `- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1Richard Hachel
13 Oct 24  ii  i`* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics2Thomas Heger
13 Oct 24  ii  i `- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics1Mikko
8 Aug 24  ii  `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics4Ross Finlayson
10 Aug 24  ii   `* Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics (running constants)3Ross Finlayson
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11 Aug 24  ii     `- Re: the notion of counter-intuitiveness in relativistic physics (running constants)1Ross Finlayson
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