Re: Guess who?

On 4/9/25 23:26, Thomas Heger wrote:
 > Am Mittwoch000009, 09.04.2025 um 11:04 schrieb J. J. Lodder:
 >> Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:
 >>
 >>> Am Montag000007, 07.04.2025 um 12:03 schrieb J. J. Lodder:
 >>>> Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote:
 >>>>
 >>>>> On 3/12/25 4:16 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
 >>>>>> FYA, all.
 >>>>>> Who wrote this letter, and for whom was it intended?
 >>>>>> (ten bonus points for the correct year)
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> ======
 >>>>>> Herr Einstein is one of the most original minds that we have ever
 >>>>>> met.
 >>>>>> In spite of his youth he already occupies a very honorable position
 >>>>>> among the foremost savants of his time.
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> What we marvel at him, above all, is the ease with which he adjusts
 >>>>>> himself to new conceptions and draws all possible deductions from
 >>>>>> them.
 >>>>>> He does not cling to classic principles, but sees all conceivable
 >>>>>> possibilities when he is confronted with a physical problem.
 >>>>>> In his mind this becomes transformed into an anticipation of
 >>>>>> new phenomena that may some day be verified in actual experience....
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> The future will give more and more proofs of the merits of Herr
 >>>>>> Einstein, and the University that succeeds in attaching him to itself
 >>>>>> may be certain that it will derive honour from its connection with
 >>>>>> the
 >>>>>> young master.
 >>>>>> =======
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> Guess Who?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> Jan
 >>>>>> (cheaters will be disqualified)
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> This forged letter sounds like what Einstein himself would dictate
 >>>>> to a
 >>>>> "Whodat" type of Bozo to create a recommendation letter.
 >>>>
 >>>> So denialism is what it is for you.
 >>>>
 >>>> In the meantime I have dug up he original French text.
 >>>> (not bad, for a forger who didn't speak French, Eh?)
 >>>>
 >>>> As for the letter: Einstein and Poincare had met for the first and last
 >>>> time at the Solvay conference, Oct. 30 to Nov. 2, 1911.
 >>>> The letter of recommendation by Curie and Poincare to the ETH, Zurich,
 >>>> was written shortly afterwards.
 >>>> Einstein's appointment at the ETH finally came through in July 1912.
 >>>>
 >>>> It is of course inconceivable that Poincare would have met Einstein on
 >>>> friendly terms at the Solvay, where he had lively discussions with him,
 >>>> (together with Lorentz) and that he would have written this letter of
 >>>> recommendation if he had considered Einstein to be a mere plagiarist
 >>>> of his own work.
 >>>>
 >>>> Jan
 >>>>
 >>>> Letter of Recommendatation
 >>>> ====
 >>>> M. Einstein est un des esprits les plus originaux que j'aie connus;
 >>> ...
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>> ====
 >>>> Signed,  Mme. Curie and Henri Poincaré
 >>> translation by google
 >>>
 >>> "Mr. Einstein is one of the most original minds I have ever known;"
 >>>
 >>> Apparently Poincare knew Einstein in person, hence Einstein spoke
 >>> French.
 >>
 >> Poincare no doubt had studied Einstein's publications,
 >> and they met in person for thee days at the 1911 Solvay conference.
 >> The letter of recommendation was written shortly after that.
 >>
 >>> But not only was Einstein able to speak French somehow, but apperently
 >>> spoke French well.
 >>
 >> Good enough. It is a matter of record that Lorentz, Einstein, and
 >> Poincare had long discussions at the Solvay conference.
 >> The language in which is not known, probably a mix of French and German.
 >> Poincare was born in Nancy, Lorraine, close to the French-German border.
 >> His mother was born close to the French-Luxembourg border.
 >> The whole Alsace-Lorraine region is effectively bi-lingual.
 >> I guess that Poincare, who lived there until age 19,
 >> could also speak German well enough.
 >> He was certainly capable of reading German.
 >> And in case of language problems Lorentz could interpret.
 >>
 >>> This little fact disturbed me already some time ago, since Einstein was
 >>> by no means a fast learner of any language (as can be seen in his poor
 >>> performance in English after ten years at Princton).
 >>
 >> Not too bad, given that Einstein started learning and speaking English
 >> when already in his fifties.
 >>
 >>> So: where did Einstein learn French?
 >>
 >> In high school, obviously, and in practice by living in Switzerland for
 >> many years. (which is a tri-lingual country)
 >>
 >>> Most likely Einstein also spoke Italien, because his family lived in
 >>> Pavia, Italy and Einstein spent some time there.
 >>
 >> Yes, that too, somewhat.
 >>
 >>> Now: German, Italian and French make a set of languages, which are
 >>> spoken in Switzerland and no other country.
 >>>
 >>> The natural question would be, if Einstein had also other relations to
 >>> Switzerland.
 >>
 >> Of course, he was a Swiss citizen, by choice.
 >>
 >>> Well, actually Einstein had a few:
 >>>
 >>> went to school in Aarau (Switzerland)
 >>> went to university in Zurich (Switzerland)
 >>> married, lived and worked in Bern (Switzerland)
 >>> spent his live after retirement in Switzerland
 >>> has Swiss citizenship
 >>
 >> Yes, yes, 'Einstein retiring to Switzerland'.
 >> Your ability to invent historical 'facts' to suit your prejudices
 >> remains amazing,
 >
 >
 > There were certain stations in the life of Einstein, which simply didn't
 > make sense:
 >
 > 1)Einstein remained alone in Germany, after his family moved to Italy.
 > But since when is this allowed and even possible?
 >
 > 2) he quit school and went to Italy, after denouncing German citizenship
 > as teenager (afaik at the age of 16).
 > But Germans were (and are) a little burocratic and didn't care much
 > about the wishes of teenagers.  So how could Einstein possily denouce
 > German citizenship?
 >
 > 3) he went to Pavia, Italy, where his family lived. But he stayed there
 > some month without attending school (the enighboring Jesuits wrote on
 > their website, that Einstein stayed there for an entire year!).
 > So Einstein missed at least a year in school. But why didn't he go to
 > school, if he spoke already Italian?
 >
 > 4) He then went alone to Aarau in Switzerland and went to the Gymnasium
 > there. But since when was it allowed (for unattended teenagers) to go to
 > Gymnasium there, if they were stateless?
Four is easy.  Back then there were no computers denying everyone
all sorts of things and tracking everything they did.
The population of the world had not increased to over 8 billion
people with a lot of increase done in poor countries, and they
gave few government handouts to persons who were called citizens.
Consider a place called the 'US'.  In 1895 Al Jennings had already
had his brother killed in a gunfight with Temple Lea Houston and
he may have still been robbing trains.  People from Mexico until
the Mexican Revolution of the 1910s could still easily cross the
border if they wanted to with no interference at all.  And ride
back if they wanted to.  This is because they were considered to
be better than the Native Americans because they did not shoot
at the settlers like they did.  If they found work and someone
was willing to pay, that worked. and if they wanted to ride
back to Mexico afterward that worked also.  Because people did
not get vast amounts of payments specifically for being a citizen,
they generally did not care around the entire world because the
nature of economic migration was different.
If you add 16 to 1879 it might have been something like that.
 > 5) He then went to university in Zurich in one of the most prestiguos
 > universities of the world (still alone). But how could he afford
 > university fees and cost of living in Zurich?
 >
 > 6) Then he became a patent clerk in Bern. But patent offices are run by
 > what in German is called 'Beamte', who are state officials. And only
 > born citizens are (usually) allowed in such offices.
 >
 >
 > So: what if Einstein WAS actually a born Swiss citizen, and therefor a
 > few of his stations in his CV were faked?
 >
 > And if so: how could we know, whether or not his name was actually
 > 'Einstein'?
Maybe 'Steinmeier', the current President of Germany, was able
to get some time travel technology and went back to the later 1800s,
and then found someone.  And said, 'You can think up any name you
want, and then use me as a reference ... this is because of something
you will think up later ... .'?
 >
 >
 >
 > TH