Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Catches Liars

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Sujet : Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Catches Liars
De : polcott333 (at) *nospam* gmail.com (olcott)
Groupes : sci.logic sci.math sci.math.symbolic comp.theory comp.ai.philosophy
Date : 27. Apr 2026, 15:38:33
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <10snsdb$2eidh$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 4/27/2026 4:04 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 26/04/2026 16:37, olcott wrote:
On 4/26/2026 3:17 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 25/04/2026 15:19, olcott wrote:
On 4/25/2026 3:18 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 24/04/2026 18:01, olcott wrote:
On 4/24/2026 1:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 23/04/2026 16:32, olcott wrote:
On 4/23/2026 1:35 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 22/04/2026 10:45, olcott wrote:
On 4/22/2026 2:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 21/04/2026 16:22, olcott wrote:
On 4/21/2026 1:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 20/04/2026 16:31, olcott wrote:
On 4/20/2026 3:49 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 19/04/2026 20:21, olcott wrote:
On 4/19/2026 3:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 18/04/2026 15:58, olcott wrote:
>
Unknown truths are not elements of the body of
knowledge is a semantic tautology. Did you think
that things that are unknown are known?
>
No, but that measn that for some sentences X True(X) is unknown and there
is no method to find out.
>
I don't know about philosophers but mathematicians and logicians don't
find it interesting if all you can say that all knowledge is knowable
and everything else is not.
>
Ross Finlayson, seemed to endlessly hedge on whether
or not the truth value of the Goldbach conjecture was
known. He seemed to think that there are alternative
analytical frameworks that make the question of whether
or not its truth value is known an ambiguous question.
>
I needed to refer to unknown truth values specifically
because all "undecidability" when construed correctly
falls into one of two categories.
(a) Semantic incoherence
(b) Unknown truth values.
>
A centence can be said to be undecidable when it is known that neither
the sentence nor its negation is a theorem.
>
When we skip model theory and and define True and False
as the existence of a back chained sequence of inference
steps of expressions x or ~x reaching axioms
>
It is not useful to define new terms for comcepts that already have
good terms.
>
The result of undecidability proves that the current
foundations are incoherent in the same way that
Russell's paradox proved that naive set theory had
a glitch.
>
Hardly the same way as Russell's paradox proves that there is no
undecidability in the naive set theory.
>
If the sequence of inference steps is restricted to
valid inferences the term "True" as defined above then "sentence is
true" is just another way to say "sentence is a theorem".
>
then it is a yes or no question that has no correct yes
or no answer within the formal system.
>
Even if a question has no answer within a formal theory of natural
numbers it may have an answer in the natural numbers themselves.
>
My system is based on simple type theory and formalized
natural language.
>
This makes it a yes or no question that has no
correct yes or no answer at all anywhere, thus
an incorrect polar question.
>
How does your system handle questions that are not known to have a
yes or no answer but k´nor known to lack such answer, either, e.g. Goldbach's conjecture ?
>
out-of-scope of the body of knowledge.
"true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"
reliably computable for the entire body of knowledge.
>
So the question whether something is in the scope of your system
is not in the scope of your system? OK, but shoudn't such questions
be answerable anyway?
>
The truth value of the Goldbach conjecture might
be unknowable if it is true and the only way to
prove it is true is an infinite number of steps.
>
Peano arithmetic is unsolvable, i.e., there is no method to find
out whether a particular sentence (for exmaple Goldbach conjecture)
is provable or not. If you find a proof then you know it but it is
possible that you never find, no matter how much you search.
>
Goldbach is unknowable if it is true because
verifying that it is true requires an infinite
number of steps.
>
That is not known. Perhaps there is an unknown proof that proves it.
>
That is a correct correction.
>
However, my correction is not complete. The question how your system
handles Goldbach's conjecture and similar cases is still unanswered.
>
It is hard-coded to know that the truth value is not
currently known.
>
So when the truth value is found out
>
It is updated.
>
 > Everything else about the Goldbach conjecture is also hard-coded
 > such as the biography of Goldbach.
>
More about those things may also be discovered. It is even possible
that something we thought we know will be found to be false.
>
>
Yes.
>
Goldbach is known and possibly unknowable.
>
Everthing is that is known is knowable. But that does not include
the decidability and truth value of Goldbach's conjecture.
>
My system is only concerned with knowledge
expressed in language.
>
So essentially an ecyclopedia + a search engine.
>
Not exactly. When fully implemented it can conclusively
prove that climate change is real, that people saying
otherwise are liars and not merely mistaken.
 In order to prove that climat change is true it is sufficient to
collect statistics of observation for a sufficiently long time
(at least 50 years, preferably 100) and to compute trends and
significancies. WHich will be doen anyway, regardless of anything
you can do.
 
Here is Exxon's own data that exactly correctly predicts
short term temperature increases correlated to CO2 increases.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jan/12/exxon-climate-change-global-warming-research#img-2
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jan/12/exxon-climate-change-global-warming-research
My own paper covers hundreds, thousands, and millions
of years many different ways
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/336568434_Severe_anthropogenic_climate_change_proven_entirely_with_verifiable_facts

That there was no actual evidence of election fraud
that could have possibly changed the results of the
2020 presidential election.
 
Even the Heritage Foundation agrees
---the authors of project 2025---
Never any evidence of election fraud
that could possibly change the results:
1,600 total cases of election fraud in every election since 1981
https://electionfraud.heritage.org/search
If we could somehow magically increase these cases 15-fold
to give Trump the votes he needed in the closest two states
Trump was short 11,779 votes in Georgia
Trump was short 10,457 votes in Arizona
He would still lose the general election.
Trump is just copying Hitler's "big lie"
Here are the details of how Trump is copying Hitler
"The receptive powers of the masses are very restricted, and their understanding is feeble. On the other hand, they quickly forget. Such being the case, all effective propaganda must be confined to a few bare essentials and those must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped formulas. These slogans should be persistently repeated until the very last individual has come to grasp the idea that has been put forward."

That your system is unaware of any evidence of election fraud does
not mean that there aren't any. Peaple may have material that they
have not revealed.
 
That there never was any actual evidence of election
fraud and that he uses Hitler's own propaganda system
to convince people against the fact conclusively proves
that he is a damned liar.
If people in this forum would have given my work a fair
review instead of making a game out of denigrating this
work may have possibly made the difference in the survival
of the species.

That Trump implemented this exact quote from Hitler's
Mein Kampf to convince people otherwise:
>
    "The receptive powers of the masses are very
     restricted, and their understanding is feeble.
     On the other hand, they quickly forget. Such
     being the case, all effective propaganda must
     be confined to a few bare essentials and those
     must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped
     formulas. These slogans should be persistently
     repeated until the very last individual has come
     to grasp the idea that has been put forward."
 Trump didn't implement it any more than Hitler did. It is just a description of how people already are, and how to adapt to that.
 
The combination of how the masses actually are and the details
of how they can be convinced of dangerous lies is killing the whole
planet for a couple of more bucks on next quarter's P&L statement.

Which the decidability and truth value of Goldbach's conjecture
will be if they ever will be known.
>
Yes that it correct.
>
It also means that your system is incomplete and needs updates
whenever somebody discovers something (which happens many times
every day).
 
If by incomplete you mean it is never the infallible
all knowing mind of God you would be correct.
>
If by incomplete you mean ever has less than 99% of
the sum total of all human general knowledge you
would be incorrect. Some of its knowledge of news
stories will remain provisional until fully vetted.
 By incomplete I mean that there are questions that the system can
not answer.
And these questions fall into two categories
(a) Semantically incoherent questions that lack a finite well-founded
     justification tree.
(a) Questions with unknown/unknowable answers.
My 28 year goal has been to make
"true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"
reliably computable for the entire body of knowledge.
The complete structure of this system is now defined.

Whether the truth value of Goldbach's conjecture can
be inferred from the known properties of natural numbers is one
example.
 
--
Copyright 2026 Olcott
My 28 year goal has been to make
"true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"
reliably computable for the entire body of knowledge.
The complete structure of this system is now defined.
This required establishing a new foundation

Date Sujet#  Auteur
2 Apr 26 * The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated (signature update)304olcott
3 Apr 26 +* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated (signature update)300Mikko
3 Apr 26 i+* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Prolog Example259olcott
4 Apr 26 ii`* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Prolog Example258Mikko
4 Apr 26 ii `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Prolog Example257olcott
4 Apr 26 ii  +- Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Prolog Example1olcott
5 Apr 26 ii  `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Prolog Example255Mikko
5 Apr 26 ii   `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Prolog Example254olcott
5 Apr 26 ii    +* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Prolog Example2Ross Finlayson
5 Apr 26 ii    i`- Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Prolog Example1olcott
6 Apr 26 ii    `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Prolog Example251Mikko
6 Apr 26 ii     `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Prolog Example250olcott
7 Apr 26 ii      `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Prolog Example249Mikko
7 Apr 26 ii       `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Prolog Example248olcott
8 Apr 26 ii        `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Prolog Example247Mikko
8 Apr 26 ii         `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Prolog Example246olcott
8 Apr 26 ii          +* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction201olcott
9 Apr 26 ii          i`* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction200Mikko
9 Apr 26 ii          i `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction199olcott
10 Apr 26 ii          i  `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction198Mikko
10 Apr 26 ii          i   `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction197olcott
10 Apr 26 ii          i    +* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction7olcott
11 Apr 26 ii          i    i`* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction6Ross Finlayson
11 Apr 26 ii          i    i `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction5olcott
11 Apr 26 ii          i    i  `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction4olcott
11 Apr 26 ii          i    i   `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction3olcott
11 Apr 26 ii          i    i    `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction2Ross Finlayson
11 Apr 26 ii          i    i     `- Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction1olcott
11 Apr 26 ii          i    `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction189Mikko
11 Apr 26 ii          i     `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction188olcott
12 Apr 26 ii          i      `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction187Mikko
12 Apr 26 ii          i       `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction186olcott
13 Apr 26 ii          i        `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction185Mikko
13 Apr 26 ii          i         `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction184olcott
14 Apr 26 ii          i          `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction183Mikko
14 Apr 26 ii          i           `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction182olcott
15 Apr 26 ii          i            `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction181Mikko
15 Apr 26 ii          i             +* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction35olcott
16 Apr 26 ii          i             i`* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction34Mikko
16 Apr 26 ii          i             i `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction33olcott
16 Apr 26 ii          i             i  +* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction27Ross Finlayson
16 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i`* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction26olcott
16 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i +- Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction1olcott
16 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction24Ross Finlayson
16 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i  +* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction2Ross Finlayson
16 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i  i`- Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction1Ross Finlayson
16 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i  `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction21olcott
16 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i   `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction20Ross Finlayson
16 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i    `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction19olcott
17 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i     `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction18Ross Finlayson
17 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i      `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction17olcott
17 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i       `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction16Ross Finlayson
17 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i        `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction15olcott
17 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i         +* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction11olcott
17 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i         i`* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction10Ross Finlayson
17 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i         i +* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction8olcott
18 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i         i i`* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction7Ross Finlayson
18 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i         i i `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction6olcott
18 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i         i i  `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction5Ross Finlayson
18 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i         i i   +* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction3olcott
18 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i         i i   i`* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction2Ross Finlayson
18 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i         i i   i `- Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction1olcott
18 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i         i i   `- Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction1olcott
17 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i         i `- Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction1olcott
17 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i         `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction3Ross Finlayson
19 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i          `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction2Ross Finlayson
19 Apr 26 ii          i             i  i           `- Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction1Ross Finlayson
17 Apr 26 ii          i             i  `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction5Mikko
17 Apr 26 ii          i             i   `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction4olcott
18 Apr 26 ii          i             i    `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction3Mikko
18 Apr 26 ii          i             i     `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction2olcott
19 Apr 26 ii          i             i      `- Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction1Mikko
18 Apr 26 ii          i             `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction145olcott
19 Apr 26 ii          i              `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction144Mikko
19 Apr 26 ii          i               `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction143olcott
20 Apr 26 ii          i                +* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction30Mikko
20 Apr 26 ii          i                i`* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction29olcott
21 Apr 26 ii          i                i `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction28Mikko
21 Apr 26 ii          i                i  `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction27olcott
22 Apr 26 ii          i                i   `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction26Mikko
22 Apr 26 ii          i                i    `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction25olcott
23 Apr 26 ii          i                i     `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction24Mikko
23 Apr 26 ii          i                i      `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction23olcott
24 Apr 26 ii          i                i       `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction22Mikko
24 Apr 26 ii          i                i        +* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction10olcott
25 Apr 26 ii          i                i        i`* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction9Mikko
25 Apr 26 ii          i                i        i `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction8olcott
26 Apr 26 ii          i                i        i  `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction7Mikko
26 Apr 26 ii          i                i        i   `* The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Catches Liars6olcott
27 Apr 26 ii          i                i        i    `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Catches Liars5Mikko
27 Apr 26 ii          i                i        i     `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Catches Liars4olcott
28 Apr 26 ii          i                i        i      `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Catches Liars3Mikko
28 Apr 26 ii          i                i        i       `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Catches Liars2olcott
29 Apr 26 ii          i                i        i        `- Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Catches Liars1Mikko
24 Apr 26 ii          i                i        `* The notion of a "well founded justification tree" <is> fully elaborated11olcott
25 Apr 26 ii          i                i         +* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" <is> fully elaborated9Mikko
25 Apr 26 ii          i                i         i`* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" <is> fully elaborated8olcott
26 Apr 26 ii          i                i         i `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" <is> fully elaborated7Mikko
26 Apr 26 ii          i                i         i  `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" <is> fully elaborated6olcott
27 Apr 26 ii          i                i         i   `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" <is> fully elaborated5Mikko
27 Apr 26 ii          i                i         i    `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" <is> fully elaborated4olcott
30 Apr 26 ii          i                i         `- Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" <is> fully elaborated1Mikko
2 May 26 ii          i                `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Correction112dart200
9 Apr 26 ii          `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated --- Prolog Example44Mikko
3 Apr 26 i`* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated40olcott
24 Apr 26 `* Re: The notion of a "well founded justification tree" will be fully elaborated (signature update)3Tristan Wibberley

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